Subject: Re: [lojban] rape

From: "Ken Comer" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 18:29:00 GMT

> > Moving on abruptly to rape. For no satisfactory reason, I was
>puttering
> > with translating "rape" into Lojban, [...]
>
>I suggest "zergletu", by analogy with "zerle'a" (steal).

.ui o'aru'e ga'inai co'i rodo

Crime is, perforce, a cultural and political bias. In Texas, consensual
sex involving tongue and/or rectum is a crime, as are a variety of other
practices which are not "rape," and at least one crime is *called* rape
even though it is neither coerced nor violent (sex with someone under,
I think, age 17 is referred to as "statutory rape" even when it is
consensual).

Making a parallel with "bribe," (bapgletu) for "compelled fuck" seems
reasonable to me. I don't consider there to be significant difference 
between compelling someone by force, by threat of force, or by threat of 
other retribution.

The argument against (bapgletu) made earlier was that (bapli) was "force" 
and that it is possible to "force" someone to do something that he/she wants 
to do. Personally, if I grab my lover in a way that apparently removes all 
of her choices in the matter of how, when and if we have sex, this is still 
not "force" because: a) if she objects and calls out for me to stop, the 
"apparent" lack of choice becomes a very real exercise of choice and I will 
stop; and b) if I do not heed her request/command to stop, it is not 
"apparent" lack of choice -- it is "real" lack of choice and therefore 
"rape". If you compel sex -- *really* and not *apparently* -- it is "rape" 
by the use of the word that (I think) would transcend cultural boundaries.

Similarly, I don't actually have to beat you or tie you up to compel you to 
sexual intercourse in a way that would be justifiably called "rape." If I 
hold a pistol to your ear or strap dynamite to your child, (etc.) it's still 
"rape."

I am new to lojban, but either (bapgletu [bapli gletu]) or (zerbapgletu 
[zekri bapli gletu]) seems to have the appropriate structure and descriptive 
characteristics.

la ken komer
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