From pycyn@aol.com Fri Sep 15 13:54:24 2000 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 580 invoked from network); 15 Sep 2000 20:54:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m3.onelist.org with QMQP; 15 Sep 2000 20:54:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-r18.mx.aol.com) (152.163.225.72) by mta3 with SMTP; 15 Sep 2000 20:54:23 -0000 Received: from Pycyn@aol.com by imo-r18.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v28.15.) id a.a2.98d8ca9 (9251) for ; Fri, 15 Sep 2000 16:54:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 16:54:05 EDT Subject: Rape contd. To: lojban@egroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 41 From: pycyn@aol.com Criminal sex is not always rape and rape is not always criminalized: sodomy, fellatio and cunnilinguus, bestiality, etc. in the first case; shariyya, where it is a tort, not a crime (except in special cases), on the other (some versions of shariyya disagree on this, I gather). Force is not necessary for rape -- the drug cases show this, unless slipping someone a mickey counts as a use of force (and {bapli} is about fuzzy enough to let such an argument get started). Nor is it sufficient -- see the dominatrix case from ken (forthcoming to the list). A fortiori, the threat of force should not play a role either. But it does seem to, in the sense that one may give permission or, at least, cooperatively accede to demands ("spread legs") under a threat, so that at least first order willing the event occurs. But one is inclined to think that it is still rape in the absence of second order willing (a good reason for Lojban to be short on volitional concepts -- they're a mess). Only genuine consent (at least second order willing -- maybe third) can prevent it being rape when violence plays a role. Without the intimation of violence -- or other abnormal influences (hypnosis rather than chloral hydrate) -- probably given permission, maybe even just overt accession to suggestion, is enough. Or maybe just failure to protest when protest is appropriate. And these latter seem to work in less controversial cases than rape.