From C.D.Wright@SOLIPSYS.COMPULINK.CO.UK Sun Sep 17 06:14:18 2000 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10724 invoked from network); 17 Sep 2000 13:12:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m4.onelist.org with QMQP; 17 Sep 2000 13:12:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO nickel.cix.co.uk) (194.153.0.18) by mta2 with SMTP; 17 Sep 2000 13:12:38 -0000 Received: from s31.pool.pm3-tele-6.cix.co.uk (s31.pool.pm3-tele-6.cix.co.uk [194.153.24.151]) by nickel.cix.co.uk (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.1) with SMTP id OAA26378; Sun, 17 Sep 2000 14:12:31 +0100 (BST) X-Envelope-From: C.D.Wright@solipsys.co.uk Message-Id: <200009171312.OAA26378@nickel.cix.co.uk> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: lojban@egroups.com Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 13:22:54 +0000 Subject: Glossers, translators, and other tools ... Reply-to: c.d.wright@solipsys.co.uk Cc: lojban@solipsys.co.uk Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.31) X-eGroups-From: C.D.Wright@solipsys.co.uk From: C.D.Wright@SOLIPSYS.COMPULINK.CO.UK Coi rodo, I've been thinking quite hard lately about what tools I personally want in my (admittedly hopeless) pursuit of pain-free lojban acquisition. The jury is generally still out, although I now have some quite well-formed ideas, but I've come to the definite conclusion that the one thing I really really really don't want is a translator. It seems to me that there are two camps when it comes to the term "glosser". There are some who have tried to implement something, and they seem largely to have produced a parse with brackets, and accompanied by a collection of lookups. Certainly that's what I did, and that description also seems to cover the on-line "glosser". Of course, that kind of output doesn't really mathc the dictionary definition of a "gloss", but it can be read by those that already know some of the grammar. What it isn't, is a "translation." The other camp seems to be those who, by the term "glosser," mean "a translator that doesn't necessarily get everything right, and may not produce fully correct, idiomatic output." This is closer to the dictionary definition, but is it really what you want? Isn't everyone here trying to learn (or have learned) lojban? Of what use is a real translation? What I personally want is to read the lojban, and to be given the help I need in so doing. I'm lazy, so I need to be forced to examine the original structure, to try to memorise the vocabulary, to see the lojbanic way of thinking. If I have a half-way decent translation there's no way I'll bother trying to read the lojban. I freely admit that automatic translation from lojban to English, French, Spanish, German, Hindi, Russian, Hungarian, Lithuaian, Swedish, Finnish and American would be a wonderful thing to have, but I don't want it yet. I'm working on a tool such as I want for learning lojban, and I'm interested in hearing from people their ideas on what they want to help them learn. Please tell me how you want to learn. Do you want a better LogFlash? A better glosser? If I give you a piece of lojban that you can't read, what tools do you want to help you? Let me know at "lojban at solipsys dot co dot uk" cdw. -- \\// ze'uku ko jmive gi'e snada