From lojbab@lojban.org Sun Sep 17 16:32:10 2000 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24811 invoked from network); 17 Sep 2000 23:32:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m4.onelist.org with QMQP; 17 Sep 2000 23:32:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO stmpy-2.cais.net) (205.252.14.72) by mta2 with SMTP; 17 Sep 2000 23:32:09 -0000 Received: from bob (209-8-89-79.dynamic.cais.com [209.8.89.79]) by stmpy-2.cais.net (8.10.1/8.9.3) with ESMTP id e8HNW7S06738; Sun, 17 Sep 2000 19:32:07 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from lojbab@lojban.org) Message-Id: <4.2.2.20000917191850.00ae8640@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: vir1036/pop.cais.com@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 19:28:41 -0400 To: lojban@egroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] Glossers, translators, and other tools ... Cc: lojban@solipsys.co.uk In-Reply-To: <200009171312.OAA26378@nickel.cix.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed From: "Bob LeChevalier (lojbab)" C.D.Wright@SOLIPSYS.COMPULINK.CO.UK wrote: >... There are some who have tried >to implement something, and they seem largely to have >produced a parse with brackets, and accompanied by a >collection of lookups. ... >The other camp seems to be those who, by the term >"glosser," mean > > "a translator that doesn't necessarily get > everything right, and may not produce > fully correct, idiomatic output." > >This is closer to the dictionary definition, but is >it really what you want? Isn't everyone here trying >to learn (or have learned) lojban? Of what use is >a real translation? In linguistics, a gloss is a word for word "translation" with the translated words written immediately below the corresponding words of the other language. At times a parenthetical word needed for structural clarity will be added in brackets, but this is not common. Thus a linguistic gloss meets your 2nd definition above, but really is more akin to the first camp. Nora's glosser optionally does not include the brackets (indeed you have to use the -p option to have it show them), but they seem a logical option for some given that she chooses prepositions based on the parser output, and because some complex Lojban sentences cannot be understood from mere word-for-word glosses. So Nora's parser/glosser fits both definitions, which really are not incompatible. lojbab -- lojbab lojbab@lojban.org Bob LeChevalier, President, The Logical Language Group, Inc. 2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA 703-385-0273 Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: http://www.lojban.org