From Ti@fa-kuan.muc.de Sat Sep 30 02:11:25 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: Ti@fa-kuan.muc.de X-Apparently-To: lojban@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_0_3); 30 Sep 2000 09:11:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 6407 invoked from network); 30 Sep 2000 09:11:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m2.onelist.org with QMQP; 30 Sep 2000 09:11:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hh.egroups.com) (10.1.10.40) by mta2 with SMTP; 30 Sep 2000 09:11:25 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: Ti@fa-kuan.muc.de Received: from [10.1.10.106] by hh.egroups.com with NNFMP; 30 Sep 2000 09:11:22 -0000 Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 09:11:24 -0000 To: lojban@egroups.com Subject: Re: symmetrie of tenses Message-ID: <8r4ans+a7lv@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1785 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 193.149.49.79 From: "=?iso-8859-1?q?Alfred_W._Tueting_(T=FCting)?=" --- In lojban@egroups.com, "Jorge Llambias" wrote: > It is not so much a time interval as an aspect of the event. > It describes a state of affairs in which the event proper is > set up to happen. Talking of endpoints of this aspect can only > serve as an approximation. It may even happen that the event is > never eventually realized, even though the {pu'o} aspect is: > It also need not be a short interval at all: > > ze'u lo nanca le va stizu pu'o spofu > "For a year now that chair has been on the verge of > breaking down." > Not necessarily a short interval of time, but it is symmetrical > in the sense that it corresponds to a state of affairs where > the occurrence of the event proper is still relevant. la pycyn. cusku di'e > For example, the inchoative need not be followed by the event abuilding, > while the perfective must be preceded by the event fading out. Something > could prevent even the most verged on impending ... event, prevent it from > happening at even the last moment. But only an event that happens has a > perfective aspect. Thanks a lot, your contributions are indeed enlightening. As for pycyn's the last argument: I agree with it such as that the event /ba'o/ refers to needs to having happened at least in the subject's mind/imagination (l. Lojbab's example). > bazi le nu mi mo'u citka le sanmi kei ... > "Just after I finished eating my meal, ..." bazi le nu mi co'u citka le sanmi kei (?) "Short time after ending/stopping eating my meal" As far as I understand, /mo'u/ somehow refers to an event's "natural" end, right? I eat I eat from the meal (and then will cease eating) I eat the meal (which somehow implies that I eat it all) Ich esse mein Essen *auf* (aufessen=eating s. entirely) .aulun.