From jjllambias@hotmail.com Wed Oct 18 20:13:51 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: jjllambias@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@onelist.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_1_0); 19 Oct 2000 03:13:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 4648 invoked from network); 19 Oct 2000 03:13:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m4.onelist.org with QMQP; 19 Oct 2000 03:13:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (216.33.241.204) by mta3 with SMTP; 19 Oct 2000 03:13:50 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 18 Oct 2000 20:13:50 -0700 Received: from 200.42.117.122 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 19 Oct 2000 03:13:49 GMT X-Originating-IP: [200.42.117.122] To: lojban@egroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: looking at arjlujv.txt Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 03:13:49 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Oct 2000 03:13:50.0044 (UTC) FILETIME=[9A1821C0:01C0397A] From: "Jorge Llambias" I'm not sure exactly what the debate is about. I tend to be against purely metaphoric lujvo that simply copy a natlang expression, usually focusing on gismu keywords and ignoring place structures. On the other hand, I never use {pe'a} and I don't mind at all the use of good metaphors as such, just as long as they are not enthroned as lujvo, then they cease to be metaphors and become weirdly constructed words with a literal meaning not clearly related to its component meanings. Of course it is impossible that lujvo be made out of full definitions, but it is often useful to attempt to write down some kind of definition and then form the lujvo based on some part of that, if not the whole thing. >Probably one of the prides of >the old days, however, was "blade hammer" for "hatchet, ax". It can't be >gotten to by any of the mechanical rules for tanru/lujvo construction It follows one of the most basic lujvo structures: {mruli be fi lo balre}. ba'emru (balre mruli): m1=b3 m2 m3=b1 m4 "x1 is a hatchet/ax for x2 (target) with blade x3 propelled by x4." (Interesting that a hammer is not actually being a mruli when not in use, and of course ba'emru should inherit this strange property.) co'o mi'e xorxes _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com.