From xod@sixgirls.org Thu Oct 19 14:58:07 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: xod@sixgirls.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_1_0); 19 Oct 2000 21:58:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 6423 invoked from network); 19 Oct 2000 21:57:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m1.onelist.org with QMQP; 19 Oct 2000 21:57:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO erika.sixgirls.org) (209.208.150.50) by mta2 with SMTP; 19 Oct 2000 21:57:33 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by erika.sixgirls.org (8.11.0+3.3W/8.9.3) with ESMTP id e9JLvWF26862 for ; Thu, 19 Oct 2000 17:57:32 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 17:57:31 -0400 (EDT) To: lojban@egroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] RE:literalism In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII From: Invent Yourself On Thu, 19 Oct 2000 pycyn@aol.com wrote: > xod: > < unambiguity. But while the former can be proven with yacc rules, the > latter is and always will be completely subjective. And in subjectivity, > the shortest distance is often a rambling line, not a straight one.>> > It isn't even unambiguity (any way to get there is an unambiguous as another, > once you get there), but a predetermined notion of what means are appropriate > for forming compounds -- and tanru (against xod's later remark that thse > somehow are to be dealt with differently). Do you dispute that? I didn't know the notion (that a lujvo selects one of the many possible interpretations of a tanru) was controversial. Lujvo-making loses information. Sometimes it's not worth it. I propose that "rapist" is such a case. Anyway, I think we are saying the same thing. My point is that folks are attempting to achieve semantic unambiguity, and that sounds to them like it suggests a certain method: the straightest line. However, semantic unambiguity doesn't work like that. We need concrete examples, so I will invoke my tanru of "mucti minji" which means software. I think it expresses the concept clearly and concisely yet it violates the "straight line" aesthetic since it doesn't even contain "skami"! There is an other-language quality to such tanru which is not present with straight-line tanru. That quality, seeing the world a different way, I find to be more Lojbanic (more Sapir-Whorf) than the alternative, which invokes the spirit of a markup language. Personally, I came to Lojban for Sapir-Whorf effects and not for the yacc-parsable geek-code aspect. ----- It takes a lot of work to realize how little work it takes to achieve Slack.