From xod@sixgirls.org Fri Oct 20 07:50:30 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: xod@sixgirls.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_1_0); 20 Oct 2000 14:50:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 17501 invoked from network); 20 Oct 2000 14:50:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m1.onelist.org with QMQP; 20 Oct 2000 14:50:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO erika.sixgirls.org) (209.208.150.50) by mta1 with SMTP; 20 Oct 2000 14:50:29 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by erika.sixgirls.org (8.11.0+3.3W/8.9.3) with ESMTP id e9KEoSK19327 for ; Fri, 20 Oct 2000 10:50:28 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 10:50:27 -0400 (EDT) To: lojban@egroups.com Subject: Re: literalism [was: Re: [lojban] Re: looking at arjlujv.txt In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20001020050825.00b62600@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII From: Invent Yourself On Fri, 20 Oct 2000, Bob LeChevalier (lojbab) wrote: > >Lujvo are not as commonly needed as is commonly thought. There should be a > >lujvo for toothbrush, but do we need one for rapist? > > If we want to talk about someone who commits the crime of rape, we need a > word for the crime and the perpetrator. Certainly a tanru will get > bothersome if repeated multiple times in the discussion. > It can be tagged with an "it", or be referred to hence as "crime". > >"Rapist", recalling > >the long discussions held recently, fought by about 5 equally valid and > >conflicting positions, is a word that cries out for a specific tanru when > >it is introduced into a discussion. > > So probably we need (at least) 5 lujvo for rapist, each with its own valid > place structure and emphasizing some aspect that the speaker is trying to > access. There probably is no short lujvo that will capture all uses of the > English word "rape". Since these tanru are all similar, we may have a problem with lujvo collision. In this case it would be far from obvious which lujvo maps to which tanru (and which reasonable tanru got shut out). Also, if there are 5 words for rape, and each one gets used 1/5 of the time, then the usage for each word might fall below a reasonable threshold of demand, with respect to requiring a lujvo. > > Probably "force-sex-crime" will work in most but leave loopholes - places > we would use English "rape" that don't fit, and maybe a few situations > where the word would fit that are not expressed with English "rape". I recall the debates ending up in a more confused state than that. ----- "...widespread, systematic and gross violations of human rights perpetrated by the Israeli occupying power, in particular mass killings...measures which constitute...crimes against humanity.'' UN Commission on Human Rights, 19 Oct 2000