From xod@sixgirls.org Tue Oct 24 11:04:32 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: xod@sixgirls.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_1_0); 24 Oct 2000 18:04:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 3597 invoked from network); 24 Oct 2000 18:04:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m4.onelist.org with QMQP; 24 Oct 2000 18:04:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO erika.sixgirls.org) (209.208.150.50) by mta3 with SMTP; 24 Oct 2000 18:04:29 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by erika.sixgirls.org (8.11.0+3.3W/8.9.3) with ESMTP id e9OI4PD12113 for ; Tue, 24 Oct 2000 14:04:25 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 14:04:25 -0400 (EDT) To: lojban@egroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] RE^n+2: literalism In-Reply-To: <98.bb3b745.27270598@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII From: Invent Yourself On Tue, 24 Oct 2000 pycyn@aol.com wrote: > xod: > < number of words, as can the "black cat" be described by two, a racoon is a > new concept whereas the black cat is not, because the number of words to > describe racoon is unwieldy.>> > Not what I meant to be saying, in any case. Can a raccoon be > adequately described in a finite number of words if none of these > words changes its meaning in the course of being used in the > description? Maybe, but then we already had a broad meaning for > all of those words, such that raccoon was alrady a possibility > inherent in them and so not a new concept after all. > I thought all this was a trivial point, that a *new* concept was a concept we > did not > already have, but apparently everyone else understands it differently. What is a "concept we already have"? A gismu? Something that can be described with a tanru? I will boldly assert that ANYTHING can be described as a tanru with the existing gismu. Don't make me have to prove it; it may get ugly. > > I'm not sure that the discussion has gone on beyond its natural limits, since > the unclarities and confusions seem to remain, but conducting it in Lojban > would slow it down a bit, I imagine. > no'e dukse masno .ima'ibo le tsali lojban na banro va'o le du'u ma'a ze'e casnu bau le glico ----- "...widespread, systematic and gross violations of human rights perpetrated by the Israeli occupying power, in particular mass killings...measures which constitute...crimes against humanity.'' UN Commission on Human Rights, 19 Oct 2000