From xod@sixgirls.org Wed Oct 25 00:25:33 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: xod@sixgirls.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_2_0); 25 Oct 2000 07:25:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 52314 invoked from network); 25 Oct 2000 07:25:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 25 Oct 2000 07:25:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO erika.sixgirls.org) (209.208.150.50) by mta2 with SMTP; 25 Oct 2000 07:25:31 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by erika.sixgirls.org (8.11.0+3.3W/8.9.3) with ESMTP id e9P7PUh19329 for ; Wed, 25 Oct 2000 03:25:30 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 03:25:29 -0400 (EDT) To: lojban@egroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] RE^n+m:literalism In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII From: Invent Yourself On Tue, 24 Oct 2000 pycyn@aol.com wrote: > xod: > < described with a tanru? I will boldly assert that ANYTHING can be > described as a tanru with the existing gismu. Don't make me have to prove > it; it may get ugly.>> > > I'll settle for ^raccoon^ for starters, but clearly not a gismu (and I'll > temporarily disregard borrowings). Of course, you have the easy > part, since I have to come up with the concept we don't yet have. I > suspect, however, that some of the ones we already "have" will > result in things quite ugly enough (some already have). ko jimpe le du'u mi nelci le banli tanru zo'u danlu co ke clani be li pa bei le mitre be'o je se junta be li ci bi'o rere bei ci'u le ki'ogra be'o je renvi be fi li ji'i papa be'o je jarki se flira je xekri sruri se kanla je blabi jebo gapru be le kanla be'o se barna je kerfa plana rebla be sekai le xekri djine joi pelxu djine be'o je xabju be le bemro joi ketco be'o je saske se cmene la'o gy. procyon lotor .gy > < casnu bau le glico >> > > Well, I don't think it has done too badly these last 45 years and > probably for the next few as well, na'e banzu xamgu mu'u le du'u na kakne casnu la lojban bau la lojban > < implicit in that gismu. Therefore the only way to arrive at a > "new" concept is to create a tanru without a final gismu!>> > > I don't think I could even *appear* to be saying that, but in any case I am > not. The point is, remember, about *literal* tanru, and then I am saying > that, insofar as the tanru is literal the concept it presents is alrady > contained in its components (not just the final one). Again, I thought this > was trivial, but somehow it seems to be obscure. I suppose a non-literal tanru is a X type of Y which is not really a Y? This is context-switching. Inasmuch as the non-literal context is assumed, it really is a Y. If you must be a stickler, it's not a Y and the whole tanru falls apart. ----- "...widespread, systematic and gross violations of human rights perpetrated by the Israeli occupying power, in particular mass killings...measures which constitute...crimes against humanity.'' UN Commission on Human Rights, 19 Oct 2000