From jcowan@reutershealth.com Mon Dec 04 09:08:51 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: jcowan@reutershealth.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_2); 4 Dec 2000 17:08:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 32946 invoked from network); 4 Dec 2000 17:08:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 4 Dec 2000 17:08:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.reutershealth.com) (204.243.9.36) by mta2 with SMTP; 4 Dec 2000 17:08:32 -0000 Received: from reutershealth.com (IDENT:cowan@[192.168.3.11]) by mail.reutershealth.com (Pro-8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA06040; Mon, 4 Dec 2000 12:09:43 -0500 (EST) Sender: cowan@mail.reutershealth.com Message-ID: <3A2BCF5D.C088ED4A@reutershealth.com> Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 12:07:41 -0500 Organization: Reuters Health Information X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.16-22 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pycyn@aol.com Cc: lojban@egroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] de-, un- ce zo'e (was: common words) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: John Cowan la pycyn cusku di'e > Well, when I thought about it later, it seemed to me that > > [1] "x is the cleartext from cryptext y under encryption z" > > is the polar opposite of > > [2] "x is the cryptext from cleartext y under encryption z" > > within the scale of texts > involved in encryption z, and so {tol} may just be right here. I had only > meant that something had been said about it already and I had nothing to add, > not that it was dismissed, however. Actually no. The relationships [1] and [2] are the same thing. When encryption z is defined, the relationships between all pairs {x,y} are well defined whether anyone ever determines them or not. "Encode" and "decode" are based on the acts of transformation, not the relationship between plaintext and ciphertext: what we need is something like "x1 discovers that x2 is the plaintext corresponding to ciphertext x3 using system x4", which *is* distinct from "x1 discovers that x2 is the ciphertext corresponding to plaintext x3 using system x4". -- There is / one art || John Cowan no more / no less || http://www.reutershealth.com to do / all things || http://www.ccil.org/~cowan with art- / lessness \\ -- Piet Hein