From jjllambias@hotmail.com Sun Dec 10 07:52:34 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: jjllambias@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@onelist.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 10 Dec 2000 15:52:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 43366 invoked from network); 10 Dec 2000 15:52:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 10 Dec 2000 15:52:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (216.33.241.155) by mta2 with SMTP; 10 Dec 2000 15:52:33 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 10 Dec 2000 07:52:33 -0800 Received: from 200.42.118.212 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 10 Dec 2000 15:52:33 GMT X-Originating-IP: [200.42.118.212] To: lojban@egroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Bringing it about that Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 15:52:33 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Dec 2000 15:52:33.0295 (UTC) FILETIME=[358BF9F0:01C062C1] From: "Jorge Llambias" la pycyn cusku dí'e >The problem in simplest terms is that unflagged >raised subjects can be quantified over and thus held to exist when they do >not (or, more accurately, where they do not, i.e., in the real world rather >than only in the intensional ones). Yes, that's the source of the problem, but the "solution" was so drastic that it would not even admit the non-problematic cases. So, we would not be able to say {mi sisku le mi santa} even though there is no quantification problem there. > This also misconstrues cases that should >be clear: moving from "I am hunting a unicorn" to "There is a (particular) >unicorn I am hunting."  Subject raising is needed then, at least as a >corrective: "No, no, I meant to say I am hunting tu'a a unicorn" You seem to use {tu'a lo pavyseljirna} the way I would use {lo'e pavyseljirna}. This is not the way {tu'a} is usually explained, though. {tu'a lo pavyseljirna} is defined as "a bridi about a unicorn", so if you say {mi kalte tu'a lo pavyseljirna} you are saying something really weird, that you are hunting some bridi. co'o mi'e xorxes _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com