From arosta@uclan.ac.uk Tue Dec 12 07:20:53 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: arosta@uclan.ac.uk X-Apparently-To: lojban@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 12 Dec 2000 15:20:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 36447 invoked from network); 12 Dec 2000 15:20:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 12 Dec 2000 15:20:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO com1.uclan.ac.uk) (193.61.255.3) by mta2 with SMTP; 12 Dec 2000 15:20:48 -0000 Received: from gwise-gw1.uclan.ac.uk by com1.uclan.ac.uk with SMTP (Mailer); Tue, 12 Dec 2000 14:59:15 +0000 Received: from DI1-Message_Server by gwise-gw1.uclan.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 12 Dec 2000 15:11:33 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.5.2 Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 15:11:15 +0000 To: jcowan Cc: "a.rosta" , lojban Subject: Re: [lojban] sisku (was: Re: bringing it about) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline From: And Rosta John: > And Rosta wrote: >=20 > > I'm not clear how {tu'a} would help with {sisku}. > > For reference, the place structure of "sisku" is > "x1 searches for something with property x2". > > > Indeed, it's hard to see any way of saying in standard Lojban both=20 > > > > I'm looking for a unicorn. > > mi sisku lo ka [ke'a] -unicorn This one's fine, of course. > > There's a book that I'm looking for. > > da poi cusku zo'u mi sisku tu'a da Fine if we can find a valid expansion for=20 "tu'a da". > da poi cusku zo'u mi sisku lo ka [ke'a] me da Does "X me Y" mean "X pertains to Y" or does it mean "everything that is true of Y is true of X" (or some close counterpart thereof)? I seem to recall that the former is closer to the mark,=20 which would nix your solution. But the latter meaning (which I would much prefer) seems to make=20 the solution pretty much okay.=20 > > using one and the same selbri. > > I don't know if this counts as "one and the same" or not. Counts as one and the same in one sense, but I was thinking of a single brivla, so "X seeks Y" would be "X brivla Y".=20 > > FWIW, I would prefer not to seek a solution at all, and to use=20 > > "X troci lo (?) nu X know-the-whereabouts-of Y" instead. > > I don't know if there's a sufficiently vague predicate for > "know-the-whereabouts-of". That works for seeking a unicorn, > or even an antelope in North America, but how about seeking > the largest prime number? That will never be "found", but the > search is not through physical space. I don't see a problem which "whereabouts" extending to location within nonphysical conceptual spaces. > There is / one art || John Cowan > no more / no less || http://www.reutershealth.com=20 > to do / all things || http://www.ccil.org/~cowan=20 > with art- / lessness \\ -- Piet Hein --And. There is=20 one hope for how=20 to cope with shit life brings us glad- nessless: one should=20 not mope but do=20 all things with hope- lessness.