From arosta@uclan.ac.uk Tue Dec 12 07:42:09 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: arosta@uclan.ac.uk X-Apparently-To: lojban@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 12 Dec 2000 15:42:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 28519 invoked from network); 12 Dec 2000 15:42:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 12 Dec 2000 15:42:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO com1.uclan.ac.uk) (193.61.255.3) by mta2 with SMTP; 12 Dec 2000 15:42:05 -0000 Received: from gwise-gw1.uclan.ac.uk by com1.uclan.ac.uk with SMTP (Mailer); Tue, 12 Dec 2000 15:27:11 +0000 Received: from DI1-Message_Server by gwise-gw1.uclan.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 12 Dec 2000 15:36:56 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.5.2 Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 15:36:33 +0000 To: jcowan Cc: lojban Subject: Re: [lojban] sisku (was: Re: bringing it about) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline From: And Rosta John: > And Rosta wrote: > > Does "X me Y" mean "X pertains to Y" or does it > > mean "everything that is true of Y is true of X" > > (or some close counterpart thereof)? I seem to > > recall that the former is closer to the mark,=20 > > The former was the original Lojban position, but under the pressure > of Randall Holmes, the TLI logician, both branches of Loglan > adopted the position that "me X" means "is an X/is some Xs". Good news. I don't remember that. Thanks to TLI.... > > Counts as one and the same in one sense, but I was > > thinking of a single brivla, so "X seeks Y" would be > > "X brivla Y".=20 > > If we allowed such a thing, then we would be > trapped by the extensionality of sumti outside > abstractions, so seeking a unicorn and seeking > an antelope (in North America) would be the > same thing, namely, seeking nothing. That was the essence of my point. --And.