Subject: Re: [lojban] Cultural fu'ivla

From: Robert LeChevalier <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 19:13:58 -0500

At 09:07 AM 12/18/2000 -0500, Pierre Abbat wrote:
> >Is this stuff still considered baselined? In which case Pierre's list
> >will need transforming into this format. If it's not considered to be
> >current Lojban any more I'd like to know, as I was going to be building
> >support for this into the next release of jbofi'e (in terms of the
> >algorithm to split lujvo into rafsi at least). Clearly this might save
> >me some work :-)
>
>According to 4.16, it's not baselined, it's an experimental proposal. I don't
>agree with reserving CCVVCV for cultural fu'ivla, or making all cultural
>fu'ivla be of that form, since most of them don't fit into that form. I think
>it should be just another fu'ivla tarmi.

The only sense in which it is "reserved" is that at the time the book was 
written, we were willing to consider the coining of cultural fu'ivla in 
that form and if the combining form with 'y' proved unambiguous (something 
that has never been tested), lujvo using that combining form would be 
legitimate - thus the fu'ivla form is not reserved, only the combining 
rafsi for words in that form are limited to culture words in that form. If 
the combining form was not unambiguous, then the fu'ivla would still be 
valid on their own, though of course not necessarily the ideal form for 
some words - they just could not be used in lujvo.

>As to rafsi fu'ivla, I don't see why a fu'ivla couldn't fall at the end of a
>lujvo, as long as the rafsi preceding it forces the insertion of a 'y' by the
>rules. If you can come up with a counterexample, please let me know; maybe it
>means that the rules for fu'ivla should be restricted.

1) Any change to the rules for fu'ivla would be a baseline change.

2) By definition, fu'ivla space is all valid brivla space that is not 
otherwise invalidated by the more important gismu and lujvo forms. Being 
defined only by exception, there really aren't any "rules" for fu'ivla that 
can be changed.

3) Similarly, with an infinite number of fu'ivla forms, it would probably 
be impossible to test ALL fu'ivla forms to ensure that they could occur at 
the end of a lujvo (there might be a mathematical model that would allow 
such a proof, but the math is far beyond my level).

lojbab
--
lojbab [email-masked]
Bob LeChevalier, President, The Logical Language Group, Inc.
2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA 703-385-0273
Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: http://www.lojban.org