From arosta@uclan.ac.uk Tue Feb 06 11:47:10 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: arosta@uclan.ac.uk X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 6 Feb 2001 19:46:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 28678 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 19:46:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 6 Feb 2001 19:46:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO com1.uclan.ac.uk) (193.61.255.3) by mta1 with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 19:46:59 -0000 Received: from gwise-gw1.uclan.ac.uk by com1.uclan.ac.uk with SMTP (Mailer); Tue, 6 Feb 2001 19:30:59 +0000 Received: from DI1-Message_Server by gwise-gw1.uclan.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 06 Feb 2001 19:46:43 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.5.2 Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 19:46:20 +0000 To: jcowan , lojban Subject: Re: [lojban] RE:su'u Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline From: And Rosta John: #> pc: #> #As an at least occasional Nyayaika and Montagovian, I have to say that= =20 #> #abstractions from sumti do make sense, since every individual (or group= or=20 #> #mass) has an abstract "-ness." This is different from {ka/nu/.... me=20 #> #[sumti]}, since it holds of the individual even in worlds where the [su= mti]=20 #> #does not (indeed, is how you trace the individual across worlds).=20=20 [...] #I think the point is that while there's no Judith Shakespeare (a hypotheti= cal #sister of William, also a poet, invented by Virginia Woolf, ...), it is #still reasonable to talk about the Judith-Shakespeare-ness of someone. # #Trying to do this as "lo nu me la djudit. cekspir." doesn't work, #because "la djudit. cekspir." lacks a referent. Whereas that trick does #work when translating Sterne's _Tristram Shandy_ on the #"corregiosity of Corregio". Thanks. I understand (maybe). I agree with pc, then, that there's a=20 problem (and I also think that it is the "(me) la X" form (and the notion o= f=20 reference) that is metaphysically faulty). A cumbersome solution would be something like "ckaji ro ckajrdjuditceikspir= ", or even "ckaji la djuditceikspir", where the cmevla denotes a property, no? --And.