From ia@STRYX.DEMON.CO.UK Fri Feb 09 16:51:52 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ia@stryx.demon.co.uk X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 10 Feb 2001 00:51:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 46317 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2001 00:51:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 10 Feb 2001 00:51:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO finch-post-10.mail.demon.net) (194.217.242.38) by mta3 with SMTP; 10 Feb 2001 01:52:56 -0000 Received: from stryx.demon.co.uk ([158.152.74.164] helo=stryx) by finch-post-10.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 14ROGT-0007PT-0A for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 00:51:50 +0000 To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 00:51:38 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [lojban] kau Priority: normal References: <01020716053301.09960@neofelis> from Pierre Abbat at "Feb 7, 2001 03:58:37 pm" In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Message-Id: From: "Iain Alexander" On 7 Feb 01, at 20:21, John Cowan wrote: > Pierre Abbat scripsit: > > Is this right?: > > [1]> > mi djuno ledu'u makau klama le zarci > > I know who goes to the store (it could be nobody) > > [2]> > mi djuno ledu'u dakau klama le zarci > > Someone goes to the store, and I know who it is This means exactly the same as [1] (IMHO) (But I'm tempted to think that [1] really _ought_ to mean Who do I know goes to the store? :-) > > [3]> > mi djuno ledu'u la djan. kau klama le zarci > > I know that it is John who goes to the store This, on the other hand, I believe means (something like) I know which John goes to the store i.e. I thought we had decided that the semantics of whatever {kau} is attached to were significant, and restricted the range of possible referents. (Although I admit that may have changed since.) [4] > > mi na djuno ledu'u la djan. kau klama le zarci > > I don't know that it is John who goes to the store, i.e. > > either I don't know who it is, or I do know but it isn't John. > > Only the first of these should have -kau: > [5]> mi djuno le du'u da klama le zarci > There is some x1 such that I know that x1 goes to the store. (Agreeing with Jorge:) Surely this can't be right. That would be da zo'u mi djuno le du'u da klama le zarci and [5] simply means I know that somebody goes to the store -- Iain Alexander PGP 1024-bit key id B501A0AD ia@stryx.demon.co.uk I.Alexander@x400.icl.co.uk