From phma@oltronics.net Fri Feb 09 17:08:35 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: phma@ixazon.dynip.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 10 Feb 2001 01:07:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 33820 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2001 01:07:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 10 Feb 2001 01:07:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO neofelis.ixazon.lan) (207.15.133.40) by mta3 with SMTP; 10 Feb 2001 02:08:04 -0000 Received: by neofelis.ixazon.lan (Postfix, from userid 500) id 3C3853C561; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 20:06:55 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: phma@oltronics.net To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] kau Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 19:57:34 -0500 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.29.2] Content-Type: text/plain References: <01020716053301.09960@neofelis> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <01020920065504.00932@neofelis> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: phma@ixazon.dynip.com From: Pierre Abbat On Fri, 09 Feb 2001, Iain Alexander wrote: >On 7 Feb 01, at 20:21, John Cowan wrote: > >> Pierre Abbat scripsit: >> > Is this right?: >> > >[1]> > mi djuno ledu'u makau klama le zarci >> > I know who goes to the store (it could be nobody) >> > >[2]> > mi djuno ledu'u dakau klama le zarci >> > Someone goes to the store, and I know who it is > >This means exactly the same as [1] (IMHO) >(But I'm tempted to think that [1] really _ought_ to mean >Who do I know goes to the store? >:-) That is "mi djuno ledu'u ma klama le zarci". li'o >[5]> mi djuno le du'u da klama le zarci >> There is some x1 such that I know that x1 goes to the store. > >(Agreeing with Jorge:) Surely this can't be right. That would be > >da zo'u mi djuno le du'u da klama le zarci > >and [5] simply means > >I know that somebody goes to the store So [5] is equivalent to "mi djuno le du'u da zo'u da klama le zarci"? Then of course there is "I know who goes to the store", meaning I know the person. That can't be "mi djuno le klama be le zarci", because le se djuno is a fact, not a person. But "mi djuno fi le klama be le zarci" isn't quite right either; that means "I know something about the one who goes to the store". So how do I say it? phma