From graywyvern@hotmail.com Mon Feb 12 08:51:19 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: graywyvern@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 12 Feb 2001 16:51:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 85018 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2001 16:51:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 12 Feb 2001 16:51:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (216.33.237.154) by mta2 with SMTP; 12 Feb 2001 16:51:17 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 08:51:16 -0800 Received: from 209.176.48.52 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 16:51:16 GMT X-Originating-IP: [209.176.48.52] To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] RE: imaginary worlds and the death of God Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 16:51:16 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Feb 2001 16:51:16.0830 (UTC) FILETIME=[042CBFE0:01C09514] From: "michael helsem" >From: pycyn@aol.com li'o >OK, so all true identities are necessary and, since all predications can be >reduced to identities, Not in Lojban, DOI PENDO. >all truths are necessary truths. Hence, there is only >one possible world. In Lojban that IS a logical contradiction... >All events therefore are determined (could not have been >otherwise than they are), I'm not even sure how to SAY "determined" & "free will" in Lojban (surely not with forms of ZIFRE?)... >so there is no free will -- even for God (if there >is one, which there now is not, by definition) Several, actually: take your pick between JEGVO, DADJO, BUDJO or the CEVNI of your choice. Or you can LIJDA BEFIZI'O... -- and so no moral >responsibility nor any just punishment MARDE FUZME is sayable & remains for me to be argued out of... "Justice" is less lojbanical & i think should be the subject of a future thread... SFASA exists, & so do XAMGU BEFIDA BE'O SFASA & XLALI BEFIDA BE'O SFASA, like it or not (PE'ICU'I). li'o >(And most of our talk is utter nonsense. li'o FU'EKA'U LE GLICO NUNCASNU DI'I CFIPU JOI BEBNA FU'O _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com