From jjllambias@hotmail.com Mon Mar 12 18:40:03 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: jjllambias@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@onelist.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 13 Mar 2001 02:40:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 80180 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2001 02:40:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 13 Mar 2001 02:40:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (216.33.241.184) by mta1 with SMTP; 13 Mar 2001 02:40:01 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 12 Mar 2001 18:40:01 -0800 Received: from 200.41.210.24 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 13 Mar 2001 02:40:01 GMT X-Originating-IP: [200.41.210.24] To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] I almost caught the train Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 02:40:01 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Mar 2001 02:40:01.0341 (UTC) FILETIME=[E6CA5ED0:01C0AB66] From: "Jorge Llambias" la xod cusku di'e >When I hear "I'm on the verge of fighting.", I never take that to mean >the fight actually doesn't occur. Is that really what pu'o means? No, of course not. When you say {mi ca pu'o damba} there is no telling whether the fighting will eventually take place or not, all you are doing is describing the present situation. But pc's point was about the past inchoative. If you say {mi pu pu'o damba}, "I was on the verge of fighting", you are not telling whether or not the fighting eventually took place. But now the likelihood is that it didn't, for if it did you would be more likely to report that you fought, not that at some point you were on the verge of fighting. Of course context can change that: "All I can remember is that I was on the verge of fighting, I can't remember anything after that". >I thought that pu'o refers to an >event that really occurs, otherwise, there would be no event having a >before-period. No, the actual event need not occur, only the pre-event is asserted to occur. >(You can't be before an event that never occurs, unless >we're taking the trivial case, suggesting that all conceivable events >could occur in the future. Right, but that is tense (pu, ca, ba), not aspect. If you say {mi ba damba} and the fight does not take place, then the statement was false. If you say {mi ca pu'o damba}, and you really are on the verge of fighting, then the statement is true whether or not the fighting eventually takes place. The statement in this case is about the present (ca), not about the future (ba). >It is before the time that Jesus Christ comes >to my door in a Domino's uniform and delivers me a pizza.) Would you use {ba} or {pu'o} there? If {pu'o}, what is your evidence to say that such an event is about to take place? co'o mi'e xorxes _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.