Subject: Almost 100 (spun from Train Catching)

From: [email-masked]
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 12:14:37 EST

I find myself in a xodish situation, trying to work out a new case by analogy 
with examples in The Book, in this case dealing with "almost 100" and working 
out of sections 8 and 9 of chapter 18. In the latter, apparently similar 
cases, like "at least 2" and "more than 2" are handled by {su'o re} and {za'u 
re}. Now, the list in that section doesn't include "almost" but does include 
"approximately", a slightly more general term in the same area. The previous 
section contains another case apparently related, {da'a} "all but" along with 
another group ro ... so'u that seem to be relative numbers dependent upon 
some groups size (the logics of these are a real pain, depending upon a set 
of parameters not very clearly motivated). But, since they all belong to the 
same grammatical class, it would seem that they could all be used in the same 
constructions and with roughly the same pattern of meaning. So, if {da'a} 
could be used like {su'o} to indicate "one less than" whatever number 
followed, it seems that {so'a} could be used similarly to indicate some 
number slightly less than whatever number followed, {so'a panono} for "almost 
100" along with {da'a panono} for 99 (with a fuzz factor probably) and {su'e 
panono} for "at most 100" the others being in fact specifications of the last 
and sharing its grammar.
But Lojbab says not (at least "I don't think so"). As near as I can figure 
out, his point is that the class these all belong to is that of the numerals 
and that, therefeore, these words are to be interpreted numerically. So 
that, for example, {so'a} is a number slightly less than the base, say 8 or 9 
for base 10. {so'a panono} is either 8100 or 9100, with fuzz factors. And 
{panoso'a} is 108 or 109 or some other version of "almost 110"
On this version, if generalized slightly (but without changing grammatical 
categories),
{su'e re} ought to mean (n * 10)+2 for n from 0 to 9, disjoined, which it 
clearly not intention in TB.18.8.
Since Lojbab notes that many of the strings involving things other than 
regular digits but in the same general class (PAs, of which there seem to be 
half a dozen varieties) we seem to ahve a certain amount of freedom here. 
There is apparently an established (but not in TB) pattern of these critters 
at the right end of strings serving as fuzzy numbers as indicated above: 
{soso'a} or {soda'a} as "almost 100" =ninety almost-base or "ninety 
base-but-one." For one group there is a clear modifier form for those on the 
left end: {ni'u re} = -2 ({re ni'u} apparently means 2 rounded downward or a 
little over 2?) and {su'o re} and the like from section 9. But these cases 
are in complementary distribution for the moment, so the do not conflict. We 
can, then, use {so'a panono} = as well as {soso'a} etc. as "almost 100" This 
leaves the problems of these words standing alone and in the middle of a 
string of PAs, fr the first of which most alrady ahve aclear meaning, for 
thes econd of which many do, and I expect, the rest will as the need arises.