From iad@MATH.BAS.BG Wed Mar 14 00:37:43 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: iad@math.bas.bg X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 14 Mar 2001 08:37:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 71937 invoked from network); 14 Mar 2001 08:37:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 14 Mar 2001 08:37:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO lnd.internet-bg.net) (212.124.64.2) by mta2 with SMTP; 14 Mar 2001 08:37:41 -0000 Received: from math.bas.bg (ppp76.internet-bg.net [212.124.66.76]) by lnd.internet-bg.net (8.11.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id f2E8jic12540 for ; Wed, 14 Mar 2001 10:45:46 +0200 Message-ID: <3AAF09A1.16194440@math.bas.bg> Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 08:03:13 +0200 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] I almost caught the train References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Ivan A Derzhanski Jorge Llambias wrote: > la xod cusku di'e > >The point may not be that the verge of fighting was the > >most important thing; only that THAT is when the bell rang. > > Right, in that case the fighting probably did take place. > Of course, we would know what the point was if we had the > full context. When did the alarm clock go off? -- When the sun was about to rise. That is, the alarm didn't ring long before, at or after sunrise; it rang just before sunrise, and yes, of course the sun did rise. When did the bell ring? -- It was just before P & P's fight. It's the same thing here. > >Further, the phrase 'verge of fighting' means that it's more > >likely than not that the fight will occur Why then wouldn't > >you assume that fight did occur? > > I can only repeat myself: because there is not much point in > reporting it unless it did not take place. (Unless it is just > as a reference for some other event.) There is not much point in using most ZAhO, including {pu'o} and {ba'o}, unless it is just as a reference for some other event. Their primary purpose is to identify various times relative to the contour of the event, and what does one want to identify a time for, if not to link it to (the contour of) some other event? The trouble is that _be on the verge of_ also means `come close to' (suggesting `but not ...'). (This is its usual interpretation in a main clause as opposed to a subordinate one.) But if that's what you mean, you should say so, and {pu'o} is not the way to say it. --Ivan