Subject: Re: [lojban] I almost caught the train

From: Ivan A Derzhanski <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 08:03:13 +0200

Jorge Llambias wrote:
> la xod cusku di'e
> >The point may not be that the verge of fighting was the
> >most important thing; only that THAT is when the bell rang.
> 
> Right, in that case the fighting probably did take place.
> Of course, we would know what the point was if we had the
> full context.

When did the alarm clock go off? -- When the sun was about to rise.
That is, the alarm didn't ring long before, at or after sunrise;
it rang just before sunrise, and yes, of course the sun did rise.

When did the bell ring? -- It was just before P & P's fight.
It's the same thing here.

> >Further, the phrase 'verge of fighting' means that it's more
> >likely than not that the fight will occur Why then wouldn't
> >you assume that fight did occur?
> 
> I can only repeat myself: because there is not much point in
> reporting it unless it did not take place. (Unless it is just
> as a reference for some other event.)

There is not much point in using most ZAhO, including {pu'o} and
{ba'o}, unless it is just as a reference for some other event.
Their primary purpose is to identify various times relative to
the contour of the event, and what does one want to identify a
time for, if not to link it to (the contour of) some other event?

The trouble is that _be on the verge of_ also means `come close to'
(suggesting `but not ...'). (This is its usual interpretation in
a main clause as opposed to a subordinate one.) But if that's what
you mean, you should say so, and {pu'o} is not the way to say it.

--Ivan