From jjllambias@hotmail.com Sun Mar 18 16:56:17 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: jjllambias@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@onelist.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 19 Mar 2001 00:56:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 58428 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2001 00:56:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 19 Mar 2001 00:56:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (216.33.240.153) by mta1 with SMTP; 19 Mar 2001 00:56:15 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 18 Mar 2001 16:56:15 -0800 Received: from 200.41.210.17 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 00:56:15 GMT X-Originating-IP: [200.41.210.17] To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] Random lojban questions/annoyances. Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 00:56:15 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Mar 2001 00:56:15.0746 (UTC) FILETIME=[66867620:01C0B00F] From: "Jorge Llambias" la camgusmis cusku di'e > > >2a: to be aware of the truth or factuality of: be convinced or > > >certain of > >What does that ':' mean to you, then? Something much like the "/" used in the gi'uste definitions. > > We know that they are not equivalent because "John is absloutely > > convinced that Robin lives in Australia" works where "John knows that > > Robin lives in Australia" doesn't. > >Once again, it works just fine for me. Can't argue with that. >It would be likely to provoke >the response "But Robin _doesn't_ live in Australia", but that just >makes the knowledge inaccurate; it's no less knowledge for being wrong. Both statements would provoke that response? Would you really say "John knows that I live in Australia" as comfortably as "John is convinced that I live in Australia"? I find it hard to believe, but what else can I say? >Except that that _IS_ the English usage, at least the English I speak. >Out of curiosity, which English do you speak (British, American, ESL, >etc)? ESL, I lived for four years in Australia (I went to high school there) and later four years in the US. >I'm a native NA English speaker. I don't think this is really a regional matter. Spanish "saber" works pretty much the same way in this regard. >The had no problem with the sentence "I know Dave lives in >Australia", even if that is in fact not true, and agreed that the >_truth_ of the statement has nothing to do with the _validity_ (semantic >or syntactic) of the statement. Are you saying it is a true but invalid statement? That doesn't make sense to me. co'o mi'e xorxes _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.