From jjllambias@hotmail.com Sun Mar 18 17:55:25 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: jjllambias@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@onelist.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 19 Mar 2001 01:55:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 7254 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2001 01:55:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 19 Mar 2001 01:55:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (216.33.241.40) by mta3 with SMTP; 19 Mar 2001 02:56:29 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 18 Mar 2001 17:55:24 -0800 Received: from 200.41.210.17 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 01:55:24 GMT X-Originating-IP: [200.41.210.17] To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] Knowledge (was: Random lojban questions/annoyances Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 01:55:24 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Mar 2001 01:55:24.0741 (UTC) FILETIME=[A9E41F50:01C0B017] From: "Jorge Llambias" la xod cusku di'e >"Belief" is a fact, regardless of the truth of the statement. "Know", >however, is relative to the beliefs of the speaker. Not really of just the speaker, it is rather relative to the beliefs of the evaluator of the sentence. But that happens with every single sentence. The speaker is of course the first evaluator of their own sentence, but anyone else evaluating the sentence will not be bound by the speaker's beliefs. If John says "Paul knows that Dave lives in Australia", then my evaluation of the truth value of the sentence does not depend on John's beliefs, only on my knowledge of the facts about Dave living in Australia, and about Paul's beliefs on the subject (and a couple other things). If I have no such knowledge, I can't evaluate the truth value of the sentence. I can always take John's word for it, of course. >If I, like Steve, >think you are a Koala Bear, I validate his belief by saying "Steve knows >are you a Koala bear.". But if I don't agree with Steve, I downgrade his >belief from the level of knowledge, and say "Steve believes you are a >Koala bear.". Right. >Hence, the English "know" reflects the beliefs of every speaker that >transmits the fact. So does the phrase "it is true that ..." >Do we want this rather strange, intransitive (?) >behavior in Lojban too? Why strange? co'o mi'e xorxes _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.