Subject: Re: [lojban] Knowledge (was: Random lojban questions/annoyances

From: "Jorge Llambias" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 03:49:23

la camgusmis cusku di'e

>I'm not answering that question until and unless someone tells me how
>having djuno require truth would work in practice.

Pretty much like English "knows" works in practice.
{djuno} does not "require" truth any more than {jetnu} does.

>Given:
>
>la stiv djuno le du'u do cribe
>
>and assuming you are not a (Koala) bear, how do you correct the speaker,
>since the speaker has, by definition, stated a truth, since djuno can
>only talk about truths!

How do you correct a speaker who states {jetnu fa le du'u do cribe}?

It is the same situation. Neither the use of {djuno} nor of {jetnu}
entails that the speaker is stating a truth.

>And what if you hear Steve say:
>
>mi djuno le du'u do cribe
>
>how do you correct him?

i do srera i mi na cribe

>And once you've done so, since djuno only talks about facts, does that
>mean that Steve can no longer say
>
>mi pu djuno le du'u do cribe

He can't truthfully say that if he accepts my correction and
now knows that I'm not a bear. He has to accept that his previous
statement was false, no big deal. That does not mean he was being
dishonest, it only means he was wrong.

>And if he can't say that, that would be rather disturbing, since it's
>certainly _true_ that he used to know that; he stated his knowledge
>earlier!

No, what is true is that he thought he knew that. He stated what
he though his knowledge was. He can now say:

mi pu jinvi le du'u do djuno le du'u do cribe

Very much like in English: "I thought you were a bear"
and not "I knew you were a bear".

co'o mi'e xorxes

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