Subject: re: djuno [was: random lojban annoyance

From: "michael helsem" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 19:46:19

Let's keep LA .UEBSTR. out of this... What's chiefly
distinguished in Lojban is the amount of sumti places that
semantically similar words use. Off the top of my head i can
think of five (plus JIJNU if you accept intuitive knowledge).

One with two places:

BIRTI- x1 is certain/sure/positive/convinced that x2 is true. (Meant to 
contrast with SENPI, i'm sure.)

Two with three places:
KRICI- x1 believes [without evidence] that belief/creed x2 (du'u) is 
true/assumed about subject x3.
SRUMA- x1 assumes/supposes that x2 (du'u) is true about subject x3.
(I assume LE SRUMA would give reasons if asked--but so would most
LE KRICI...)

And two with four places:

DJUNO- x1 knows fact(s) x2 (du'u) about subject x3 by epistemology x4. 
JINVI- x1 thinks/opines x2 [opinion] (du'u) is true about subject/issue x3 
on grounds x4.
Using these without specifying x4, could mean that the usual basis
of knowledge is meant (TV or public schools). But unless i'm
sloppily translating from GLICYKAI thinking, i would rather use
one of the three-place gismu if it's not going to be an issue.
On the other hand, if i'm talking about someone i think is mistaken,
then it behooves me to include in the x4 my opinion of what
caused them to go wrong...even if it's just LEKA DRATA MI.

They all work with evidentials & each other & JETNU & JITFA &
there's really no need to delve into the polysemies of LA
GLIBAN to say all we want about our own or other people's
knowledge &/or thoughts. Personally i have no problem if one
LOBYPRE wants to distinguish DJUNO & JETNU DJUNO, & another
DJUNO & SIMLU DJUNO (as for myself, a lot i think would be
best termed MILXE DJUNO--or even ZASNI DJUNO)...

(p.s, STILL can't get this to work:
http://www.animal.helsinki.fi/lojban/gismu-search-form.html --!!)
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com