From xod@sixgirls.org Mon Mar 19 12:40:39 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: xod@shiva.sixgirls.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 19 Mar 2001 20:40:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 98361 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2001 20:40:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 19 Mar 2001 20:40:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO shiva.sixgirls.org) (206.252.141.232) by mta2 with SMTP; 19 Mar 2001 20:40:37 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by shiva.sixgirls.org (8.11.0/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f2JKHhA12620 for ; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 15:17:43 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 15:17:43 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: Re: [lojban] Knowledge (was: Random lojban questions/annoyances In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII From: Invent Yourself On Mon, 19 Mar 2001, Robert J. Chassell wrote: > > Not at all. I am objectively reporting the personal claims of A. "Sophie > > is a Muslim" is objective fact. "Sophie KNOWS Mohammed is Allah's only > > prophet" is not objective, because I am sneaking in my own agreement with > > her. > > We have been over this before: > > every utterance is stated a `universe of discourse'. Should I assume you meant "There are multiple `universes of discourse'"? Because the statement as you wrote it, means that every statement is true according to itself. This is trivial. However, dealing with multiple `universes of discourse' is interesting. > The problem occurs because people live in difference universes. > > Sophie lives within a universe of discourse in which her knowledge is > `real'. The statement is unfalsifiable. It addition, it very > possibly is known to her by internal experience (dream, vision, or > personal revelation) {se'o}. The English word "know", when used for "A knows B", means that "A believes B and A is inside my universe of discourse". Or, "A believes B by the same epistemology I use, and hence I support his belief". I can use djuno x4, however, to apply to other universes of discourse. I can say something that resembles "Sophie KNOWS Mohammed is Allah's only prophet" while I myself am not a Muslim and don't agree with her at all. The link, I believe, between Jorge and Robin, is that the default djuno x4 is the narrator's belief system. ----- We do not like And if a cat those Rs and Ds, needed a hat? Who can't resist Free enterprise more subsidies. is there for that!