From bob@RATTLESNAKE.COM Mon Mar 19 13:10:40 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bob@rattlesnake.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 19 Mar 2001 21:10:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 67756 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2001 21:08:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 19 Mar 2001 21:08:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO megalith.rattlesnake.com) (140.186.114.245) by mta1 with SMTP; 19 Mar 2001 21:08:48 -0000 Received: by rattlesnake.com via sendmail from stdin id (Debian Smail3.2.0.111) for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 16:08:41 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 16:08:41 -0500 (EST) To: xod@sixgirls.org Cc: lojban@yahoogroups.com In-reply-to: (message from Invent Yourself on Mon, 19 Mar 2001 15:17:43 -0500 (EST)) Subject: Re: [lojban] Knowledge (was: Random lojban questions/annoyances Reply-to: bob@rattlesnake.com References: X-eGroups-From: "Robert J. Chassell" From: "Robert J. Chassell" > We have been over this before: > > every utterance is stated a `universe of discourse'. Should I assume you meant "There are multiple `universes of discourse'"? Yes. I meant to write is stated within a `universe of discourse'. ^^^^^^ but in my various editing swings managed somehow to cut that word out. ... dealing with multiple `universes of discourse' is interesting. Oh, yes, indeed.... :) The English word "know", when used for "A knows B", means that "A believes B and A is inside my universe of discourse". Or, "A believes B by the same epistemology I use, and hence I support his belief". I can use djuno x4, however, to apply to other universes of discourse. I can say something that resembles "Sophie KNOWS Mohammed is Allah's only prophet" while I myself am not a Muslim and don't agree with her at all. You are right. Well put. The link, I believe, between Jorge and Robin, is that the default djuno x4 is the narrator's belief system. No, I think the default djuno x4 should be the belief system appropriate to the utterance. But understanding does get complicated; but then, understanding always is complicated. The advantage of Lojban in this case is that it is clearly difficult to determine which djuno x4 a narrator is using unless he or she specifies it. On the other hand, it is less obvious to English speakers that epistemologies vary. Certainly, I myself tend to presume that my interlocutors share my epistemology, and I am often wrong. -- Robert J. Chassell bob@rattlesnake.com Rattlesnake Enterprises http://www.rattlesnake.com