From xod@sixgirls.org Mon Mar 19 13:30:06 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: xod@shiva.sixgirls.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 19 Mar 2001 21:30:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 5624 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2001 21:30:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 19 Mar 2001 21:30:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO shiva.sixgirls.org) (206.252.141.232) by mta2 with SMTP; 19 Mar 2001 21:30:05 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by shiva.sixgirls.org (8.11.0/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f2JL7A612777 for ; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 16:07:11 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 16:07:10 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: Re: [lojban] Knowledge (was: Random lojban questions/annoyances In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII From: Invent Yourself On Mon, 19 Mar 2001, Robert J. Chassell wrote: > The link, I believe, between Jorge and Robin, is that the default djuno x4 > is the narrator's belief system. > > No, I think the default djuno x4 should be the belief system > appropriate to the utterance. But understanding does get complicated; > but then, understanding always is complicated. > > The advantage of Lojban in this case is that it is clearly difficult > to determine which djuno x4 a narrator is using unless he or she > specifies it. On the other hand, it is less obvious to English > speakers that epistemologies vary. Certainly, I myself tend to > presume that my interlocutors share my epistemology, and I am often > wrong. In English, x4 is fixed as the narrator's belief system. I can't say "A knows B" unless I believe it too. I suspect Jorge + John use the narrator as default x4, since they seem to see djuno as similar in this sense as "know". And I suspect Robin would put it as the belief system of the person being discussed (if there is such a person). A convention on the meaning of djuno fo zo'e would be nice! ----- We do not like And if a cat those Rs and Ds, needed a hat? Who can't resist Free enterprise more subsidies. is there for that!