From lojbab@lojban.org Tue Mar 20 09:10:04 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojbab@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 20 Mar 2001 17:10:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 40182 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 17:10:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 20 Mar 2001 17:10:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO stmpy-1.cais.net) (205.252.14.71) by mta1 with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 17:10:01 -0000 Received: from bob.lojban.org (dynamic118.cl7.cais.net [205.177.20.118]) by stmpy-1.cais.net (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f2KH9vb79646 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 12:09:58 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010320120853.00c07150@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: vir1036/pop.cais.com@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 12:13:44 -0500 To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] Random lojban questions/annoyances. In-Reply-To: <20010319140349.S3953@calum.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20010319131250.00c02230@127.0.0.1> <20010318183938.H3953@calum.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4.3.2.7.2.20010319131250.00c02230@127.0.0.1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed From: "Bob LeChevalier (lojbab)" At 02:03 PM 03/19/2001 -0500, Robin Lee Powell wrote: > > >If y'all are going to insist that djuno makes a distinction between "to be > > >aware of the truth or factuality of" and "be convinced or certain of", > > >you're going to need to rewrite the definiton, because that is _not_ > > >what the current definition says. The current definition being in > > >English, the meanings of the english words must be used. > > > > The current definition is NOT a single word, and the whole must be used to > > get the meaning. There MUST be an epistemology, which COULD be > > belief. But I can "know" something by one epistemology and "know" the > > exact opposite by a different epistemology, in Lojban. > >That seems to be directly contradicting what John has been saying. I'm >fine with your interpretation, as it allows 'mi pu djuno' for something >I used to know but have been corrected on. I don't know how what I say contradicts John. With some specific x4 values, x2 can be true whether or not I know it to be false by some other x4 value. It is even plausible that some thing may be known to x under epistemology w and not known to y under the same epistemology. Such an epistemology would not effectively describe objective reality since I have postulated subjectivity in the definition of that epistemology. jetnu, which has no observer place, does not support subjective truth, whereas djuno could. lojbab -- lojbab lojbab@lojban.org Bob LeChevalier, President, The Logical Language Group, Inc. 2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA 703-385-0273 Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: http://www.lojban.org