From C.D.Wright@solipsys.compulink.co.uk Sun Apr 11 07:35:27 1999 X-Digest-Num: 111 Message-ID: <44114.111.608.959273824@eGroups.com> Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 14:35:27 +0000 From: C.D.Wright@solipsys.compulink.co.uk Subject: Re: Pronunciation ... cdw> I've just re-read the bit about pronunciation. In cdw> particular, the letter "a". cf> You must remember that Lojban being an international cf> language, its materials are written firmly in American cf> vau zo'o. .u'isai cdw> and the bit that *really* confuses me is the line: txt_bk> a /ah/ 'top' 'father' patfu /PAHT,foo/ cdw> To me, "top" and "father" have nothing in common, cdw> and, in particular, to me, the "a" in "father" cdw> sounds just like the "a" in "sofa". cf> For most people on the ropno side of the pond "top" and cf> "father" have nothing in common; but nor, I suggest do cf> many people pronounce the in "sofa" like that in cf> "father". (I do so pronounce the in 'tonic sol-fa') I pronounce "father" and "farther" more-or-less the same, the difference being only in a slight lengthening of the sound. cdw> So, just how *does* one pronounce the "a" ?? cdw> Which of the following gives the best approximation? cdw> "top", "often", "off", "octet", "October" cdw> "gas", "grab", "dab", "action", "actual" cdw> "tug", "mug", "undo", "father", "money" cf> For most in southern England, "father" does indeed cf> provide the best guide. "tug" is not too bad, being cf> fairly low; but in other dialects, this vowel is more cf> central, and confusable with the schwa. I've just spoken with a linguist friend who, upon being told that the lojban vowels are tensed, widely spaced, and not easily confused with the schwa, came up, without significant prompting, with /u/ boot, toot, flute, chute /o/ top, cot, motley, monster /i/ clean, green, machine /e/ bet, lens, enemy /a/ cat, bat, mat, dab, action And as a footnote, there is no need in general to send emails both to me and the list - it just means I get them twice. It doesn't matter, but it isn't necessary. cdw === " If you never go off at a tangent you will forever run in circles. "