Subject: Re: [lojban] Knowledge (was: Random lojban questions/annoyances

From: SwiftRain <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 03:49:16 -0500

Jorge Llambias wrote:
> 
> I don't know about default. All places that are not filled explicitly
> have to be understood as filled with whatever the speaker has in
> mind, and of course the speaker has to make sure of providing enough
> context for the audience to work out what that is. In that sense,
> yes, the unfilled x4 should usually correspond to the speaker's
> epistemology.

.iero'e 

No one is thinking Lojbanically in this discussion. I have even sighted
the ghost of Webster floating about. Dear me. 

"da de djuno" 
means 
"da de zo'e zo'e djuno" 
not 
"da de zu'i zu'i djuno" 

The best way to tell what a Lojban word means is its places. Zo djuno
has a place for subject and a place for epistemology, so it clearly
allows for knowledge which is true only relative to a particular subject
or under a particular epistemology. If a use of zo djuno strikes us as
strange, we should try saying: 

"djuno fi ma?" -- you know that about what? 
or 
"djuno fo ma?" -- how do you "know" that? 

.i lisri fe lo lojbo tixnu goi ko'a fa 
lu 

.i ko'a cusku lu .i zanpa'u! .i zanpa'u! 
.i mi djuno le du'u zasti fa lo jirna xirma! 
li'u 
.i le patfu cu spuda la'edi'u le nu cusku 
lu .i .ienairo'e xu go'i sai?! 
.i do djuno fo ma? li'u 

.i cusku fa ko'a fe lu .i mi djuno fo le vi lisri cukta li'u 

.i le patfu cu cisma je cusku 
lu .ua fo le vi lisycku ku ja'a djuno fa do li'u 

li'u 

<translation> 

a story about a lojbanic daughter: 

she says "papa! papa! i know that unicorns exist!" 

the father replies, "really?! i don't believe it! under what
epistemology do unicorns exist?!" 

"the epistemology of this here story book," says she. 

"ah!" says the father, "according to this book, unicorns do indeed
exist." 

</translation> 

That ought to satisfy everyone, if you ask me. And ji'a it proves the
du'u that Lojban makes kids smarter, at least so far as one kricis my
story. "Djuno fo" is a lot easier to say than "know under the
epistemology of." 

.imi'e.bret.