From lojbab@lojban.org Wed Mar 21 04:43:44 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojbab@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 21 Mar 2001 12:43:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 81531 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2001 12:43:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 21 Mar 2001 12:43:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO stmpy-3.cais.net) (205.252.14.73) by mta1 with SMTP; 21 Mar 2001 12:43:43 -0000 Received: from bob.lojban.org (dynamic199.cl8.cais.net [205.177.20.199]) by stmpy-3.cais.net (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f2LChea57197; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 07:43:40 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010321073813.00c9f290@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: vir1036/pop.cais.com@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 07:47:37 -0500 To: Invent Yourself , Subject: Re: [lojban] krici (was: Knowledge (was: Random lojban questions/annoyances In-Reply-To: References: <33.1231f8d0.27e8d946@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed From: "Bob LeChevalier (lojbab)" At 02:33 PM 03/20/2001 -0500, Invent Yourself wrote: >Using the common English definition of "evidence" (sense data or >information), there is never any belief without evidence. > >Using the technical epistemological definition of "evidence" >(propositions), which includes subliminal "obvious facts", there is never >any belief without evidence. That is an odd definition of evidence to me; "obvious facts" are NOT evidence. By my understanding, the supernatural BY DEFINITION is that which does not manifest "natural" evidence of its existence. Belief in God or in angels seems to require belief. Furthermore, abstract principles do not manifest sensorially. That "all men are created equal" could be treated as an assumption if it were negotiable, but for someone who considers it a basic truth of the universe, it is a belief, and I don't see what "evidence" applies to this belief. I strongly associate my definition of belief with the word "faith", and as commonly used means that you hold your beliefs even in the face of apparent evidence that contradicts that belief. lojbab -- lojbab lojbab@lojban.org Bob LeChevalier, President, The Logical Language Group, Inc. 2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA 703-385-0273 Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: http://www.lojban.org