From lojbab@lojban.org Wed Mar 21 06:40:49 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojbab@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 21 Mar 2001 14:40:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 26851 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2001 14:40:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 21 Mar 2001 14:40:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO stmpy-5.cais.net) (205.252.14.75) by mta1 with SMTP; 21 Mar 2001 14:40:47 -0000 Received: from bob.lojban.org (dynamic199.cl8.cais.net [205.177.20.199]) by stmpy-5.cais.net (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f2LEejI13205 for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 09:40:46 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010321093718.00c0f310@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: vir1036/pop.cais.com@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 09:44:44 -0500 To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] Random lojban questions/annoyances. In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed From: "Bob LeChevalier (lojbab)" At 02:30 PM 03/21/2001 +0000, Jorge Llambias wrote: >la lojbab cusku di'e > >Use jetnu for subjective truth that is observer > >independent given a common epistemology, and djuno for subjective truth > >that is observer dependent (this seems to be where others don't necessarily > >agree with me because they don't like subjective truth to be called > >"knowledge", but you can always weaken the claim by using belief as your > >epistemology). > >You seem to be saying that you could have a situation where >{ko'a djuno ko'e fo ko'i} is true and {ko'e jetnu ko'i} >is false. I can't imagine how that could be possible, >can you give an example? Simplest case that comes to mind: experimental measurements of the speed of light or other fundamental constants. ko'a does the experiment and gets value c1. ko'e repeats the experiment and gets value c2. The actual value of c may be slightly different from either of these values, of course. In this sense, the knowledge of the values c1 and c2 are both dependent on the observers, yet neither of them is true in the absence of an observer place. Probably the same would be true of much transient subjective sensory information. lojbab -- lojbab lojbab@lojban.org Bob LeChevalier, President, The Logical Language Group, Inc. 2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA 703-385-0273 Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: http://www.lojban.org