From jjllambias@hotmail.com Wed Mar 21 15:09:51 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: jjllambias@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@onelist.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 21 Mar 2001 23:09:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 2392 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2001 23:09:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 21 Mar 2001 23:09:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (216.33.240.170) by mta2 with SMTP; 21 Mar 2001 23:09:50 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 15:09:50 -0800 Received: from 200.41.210.11 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 23:09:50 GMT X-Originating-IP: [200.41.210.11] To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] Random lojban questions/annoyances. Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 23:09:50 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 Mar 2001 23:09:50.0262 (UTC) FILETIME=[07B82D60:01C0B25C] From: "Jorge Llambias" la lojbab cusku di'e >Each observer knows a >certain value measures the speed of light based on an experiment. By >moving to an observer-independent frame, we can say that at least one of >the two values is not the speed of light as measured by the experiment once >observer dependencies are removed. So you claim that: John knows experimentally that c1 is the speed of light. It is not true experimentally that c1 is the speed of light. To me those two statements are contradictory. (They are also wrong because an experiment can only tell you a range of possible values for c with a certain degree of confidence, but that is beside the point that we are dealing with, which is whether something can be known in a system where it is not true.) >It would be true to ko'a by ko'a's senses. Then it is {jetnu} by the same epistemology by which it is {djuno}! Why do you say it is not? How do you translate the above sentence into Lojban? >But ko'a's senses are not >generally considered to be a valid epistemology for observer independent >truth (jetnu) Generally considered? Some epistemologies are valid only for {djuno} and not valid for {jetnu}? co'o mi'e xorxes _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.