From jjllambias@hotmail.com Thu Mar 22 18:50:36 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: jjllambias@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@onelist.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 23 Mar 2001 02:50:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 87922 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2001 02:50:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 23 Mar 2001 02:50:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (216.33.241.169) by mta3 with SMTP; 23 Mar 2001 03:51:39 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 22 Mar 2001 18:50:34 -0800 Received: from 200.41.210.9 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 02:50:34 GMT X-Originating-IP: [200.41.210.9] To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] krici Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 02:50:34 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Mar 2001 02:50:34.0422 (UTC) FILETIME=[08445D60:01C0B344] From: "Jorge Llambias" la xod cusku di'e >So, you're saying when you believe in God you don't really believe in >God, because absolutely nothing has convinced you that He exists even when >you are in a state of "belief"? No, I'm not saying that. I'm saying that I really do believe, in spite of being unable to justify my belief to you, and in spite of knowing that if I thought about it rationally for a while I would not come to that conclusion. The reason I have those periods of belief, in this particular Christian God and not any other, are also pretty clear: I was so taught (or maybe brainwashed) in my childhood, and so it is for me a comfortable state to be in, like wearing some old pair of shoes that you wouldn't wear outside your home. And that is the reason, I think, that people usually stick unquestioningly to this type of belief, it is safe and comfortable, and not because they have evidence. I don't think for a minute that what I was taught as a child constitutes valid evidence for my belief, I only know that that is where the belief comes from. As a child I believed because that was what everybody else did (or so it seemed), not because the belief itself made any sense to me. When I believe now it is as an echo of those times. >This is surely not what most people consider belief. Well, most of my beliefs are like that really. Once I start examining them rationally I usually come to the conclusion that there is no valid evidence for them and that I could very well hold the opposite position given the right circumstances. >Most religious >people, followers of political doctrines, kook conspiracy theorists, >racists, and the insane feel they have AMPLE evidence for their beliefs. I never disputed that. But then most people are not extremists most of the time. >I >have yet to hear anybody say anything like "I believe that a CIA >conspiracy killed JFK, but I admit there isn't a shred of evidence to >prove it." That's unlikely, yes. But you don't prove that all beliefs are based on evidence by showing that some of them are, or that many people claim to have evidence for their beliefs. co'o mi'e xorxes _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.