Subject: Re: [lojban] Random lojban questions/annoyances.

From: [email-masked]
Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 10:31:16 EST

In a message dated 3/24/2001 5:45:04 AM Central Standard Time, 
[email-masked] writes:

> >So we have to allow for non-female sisters too? Doesn't mensi
> >always require some form of fetsi?
> 
> Probably, but it might be arguable.
> 
> If I had a brother who underwent a sex-change operation, would he be my 
> sister or my brother? Genetically he is still male, but genitally he is 
> female.
> 
> Now you can say this is "some form of fetsi" But the djuno case in theory 
> could be some kind of jetnu, since you CAN add some kind of observer place 
> to jetnu.
> 
> But in any case I am wary about asserting absolute definitions, especially 
> by prescription.
> 
> , we can't say that there will 
> never be someone who can think of a use for mensi that does not involve 
> fetsi  (imagine when we meet an alien species which might be 
> asexual.  Someone's father legally adopts a child of this species into the 
> family.  Would it be wrong to call that new family member "mensi"?
> 

I seem to recall that we went round on this a while ago with respect to one 
or two types of hermaphrodites as well as transgendered and transexual 
people. I don't remember what all came of that discussion, but it is 
reasonable to assume that
we distinguished at least
1) genotype (is yo is or is you ain't a Y-by?, maybe some stuff about steroid 
responses)
2) phenotype (+ natural/artificial, permanent or prosthetic)
3) stereotype (clothes, behavior, occupation)
4) {gletu}-preference
All of that is, of course, for humans and related critters. I don't think we 
got into other possibilities, but, since, for the critters we dealt with, 
female is the default in both geno and pheno, perhaps we could let {fetsi} 
expand in that way to the new realms (assuming that, whatever, the structure 
of the genetic code and polymorphism for the Its, the notion of a default 
makes sense, as it surely does for asexuals). As for {mensi} we already have 
enough non-gender -(or is it -sex) -specific uses of "sister" in English to 
start a a range of usage (mainly tied up with 4, admittedly).  
But none of that seems to me to affect "know" nor {djuno} in any meaningful 
way.