From arosta@uclan.ac.uk Mon Mar 26 08:00:05 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: arosta@uclan.ac.uk X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 26 Mar 2001 16:00:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 95670 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2001 16:00:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 26 Mar 2001 16:00:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO com1.uclan.ac.uk) (193.61.255.3) by mta2 with SMTP; 26 Mar 2001 16:00:04 -0000 Received: from gwise-gw1.uclan.ac.uk by com1.uclan.ac.uk with SMTP (Mailer); Mon, 26 Mar 2001 16:42:20 +0100 Received: from DI1-Message_Server by gwise-gw1.uclan.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 26 Mar 2001 17:00:35 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.5.2 Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 17:00:16 +0100 To: lojban Subject: Fwd: Re: [lojban] Random lojban questions/annoyances. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: message/rfc822 From: And Rosta Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 16:55:13 +0100 From: And Rosta To: pycyn Subject: Re: [lojban] Random lojban questions/annoyances. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline pc: #> I want to know what a ve djuno is, #> and also to know how "X djuno P fo Y" and "X djuno not-P fo Z" could #> be true. #=20 #mi djuno le du'u pa sirje be by bei da cu panra le sirje be cy bei dy kei = fo=20 #le tamske pe la .iuklid #mi djuno le du'u naku pa sirje be by bei day cu panra le sirje be cy bei d= y=20 #kei fo le tamske pe na'e la .iuklid #pe'i ru'e OK. (I have neither the time, inclination nor webaccess to check what sirje and panra mean, but I get your point.) The interesting thing is that in both cases the se djuno is (I think) true, relative to the different geometries/axiom sets. Whether this means that *I* can truthfully say "ko'a djuno fe homosexuality= - is-a-sin fo fundamentalist-jegvo-dogma", I'm not sure. I suppose the answer is Yes. I should add, BTW, that this conclusion would contradict both Bob Chassell's message on this point & my response to it. That is, contra Bob, the ve djuno is not how you come to know the se djuno but rather the body of propositions such that their truth entails the truth= of the x2. I imagine that even Canadian Robin could live with that. --And.