From bob@RATTLESNAKE.COM Mon Mar 26 08:19:18 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bob@rattlesnake.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 26 Mar 2001 16:19:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 32037 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2001 16:19:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 26 Mar 2001 16:19:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO megalith.rattlesnake.com) (140.186.114.245) by mta1 with SMTP; 26 Mar 2001 16:19:12 -0000 Received: by rattlesnake.com via sendmail from stdin id (Debian Smail3.2.0.111) for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 26 Mar 2001 11:18:45 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 11:18:45 -0500 (EST) To: arosta@uclan.ac.uk Cc: lojban@yahoogroups.com In-reply-to: (message from And Rosta on Mon, 26 Mar 2001 17:00:16 +0100) Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [lojban] Random lojban questions/annoyances. Reply-to: bob@rattlesnake.com References: X-eGroups-From: "Robert J. Chassell" From: "Robert J. Chassell" I should add, BTW, that this conclusion would contradict both Bob Chassell's message on this point & my response to it. That is, contra Bob, the ve djuno is not how you come to know the se djuno but rather the body of propositions such that their truth entails the truth= of the x2. I look on the process of deciding whether you `know' or `apprehend' something as an active process. So the epistemology includes not only the body of propositions, but also, how you got to them. For example, according to Lakoff and Nunez, we humans come to accept the body of propositions for mathematics because we extend arithmetic-related fundamental experiences we have. Thus, we experience, even before we can speak, that one doll plus two dolls is three dolls; we extend that experience to propositions that underly arithmetic. Of course, in many circumstances, you leave out a good deal of information, and in other circumstances, you don't recognize what experience led to `knowledge'. (The gismu that depends on people making an unexamined study of their world is {fatci}: x1 (du'u) is a fact/reality/truth/actuality, in the absolute /:/ /=/ fatci (fac) This gismu is for people who elide; it is both dangerous and useful.) -- Robert J. Chassell bob@rattlesnake.com Rattlesnake Enterprises http://www.rattlesnake.com