From lojbab@lojban.org Mon Mar 26 09:27:47 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojbab@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 26 Mar 2001 17:27:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 28246 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2001 17:27:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 26 Mar 2001 17:27:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO stmpy-3.cais.net) (205.252.14.73) by mta3 with SMTP; 26 Mar 2001 18:28:50 -0000 Received: from bob.lojban.org (209-8-89-81.dynamic.cais.com [209.8.89.81]) by stmpy-3.cais.net (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f2QHRia66143 for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2001 12:27:45 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010326122134.00b3e6f0@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: vir1036/pop.cais.com@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 12:31:12 -0500 To: lojban Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [lojban] Random lojban questions/annoyances. In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed From: "Bob LeChevalier (lojbab)" At 05:00 PM 03/26/2001 +0100, And Rosta wrote: >#mi djuno le du'u pa sirje be by bei da cu panra le sirje be cy bei dy kei fo >#le tamske pe la .iuklid >#mi djuno le du'u naku pa sirje be by bei day cu panra le sirje be cy bei dy >#kei fo le tamske pe na'e la .iuklid >#pe'i ru'e > >The interesting thing is that in both cases the se djuno is (I think) true, >relative to the different geometries/axiom sets. > >Whether this means that *I* can truthfully say "ko'a djuno fe homosexuality- >is-a-sin fo fundamentalist-jegvo-dogma", I'm not sure. I suppose the answer >is Yes. It seems key to me that ANYONE should be able to say that truthfully if indeed ko'a is satisfied with the dogma as a means of establishing truth. >I should add, BTW, that this conclusion would contradict both Bob >Chassell's message on this point & my response to it. I'm not sure how. >That is, contra Bob, the ve djuno is not how you come to know the se djuno >but rather the body of propositions such that their truth entails the >truth of the >x2. No, because that would entail only logically consistent epistemologies. One of the ways that X can djuno P while Y can djuno not-P is to use a logically inconsistent epistemology (which fundamentalist-dogma may qualify for %^). Dreams and astrology are both classically used veldjuno that yielded differing or even contradictory seldjuno to different djuno. They thus very poorly are communicated through jetnu, which supports no observer dependency on the truth. jetnu needs a self-consistent epistemology. Using krici instead of djuno seems to me to deny that the veldjuno is a valid source of evidence for truth or at least admits to skepticism as to that claim. lojbab -- lojbab lojbab@lojban.org Bob LeChevalier, President, The Logical Language Group, Inc. 2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA 703-385-0273 Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: http://www.lojban.org