From arosta@uclan.ac.uk Tue Mar 27 09:28:05 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: arosta@uclan.ac.uk X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 27 Mar 2001 17:28:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 81482 invoked from network); 27 Mar 2001 17:27:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 27 Mar 2001 17:27:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO com1.uclan.ac.uk) (193.61.255.3) by mta3 with SMTP; 27 Mar 2001 18:28:27 -0000 Received: from gwise-gw1.uclan.ac.uk by com1.uclan.ac.uk with SMTP (Mailer); Tue, 27 Mar 2001 18:09:31 +0100 Received: from DI1-Message_Server by gwise-gw1.uclan.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 27 Mar 2001 18:26:10 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.5.2 Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 18:25:45 +0100 To: root , bob Cc: lojban Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [lojban] Random lojban questions/annoyances. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline From: And Rosta Bob C: #>>> root@megalith.rattlesnake.com 03/26/01 05:18pm >>> # I should add, BTW, that this conclusion would contradict both Bob # Chassell's message on this point & my response to it. # # That is, contra Bob, the ve djuno is not how you come to know the # se djuno but rather the body of propositions such that their truth # entails the truth=3D of the x2. # #I look on the process of deciding whether you `know' or `apprehend' #something as an active process. So the epistemology includes not only=20 #the body of propositions, but also, how you got to them. #For example, according to Lakoff and Nunez, we humans come to accept #the body of propositions for mathematics because we extend #arithmetic-related fundamental experiences we have. Thus, we #experience, even before we can speak, that one doll plus two dolls is #three dolls; we extend that experience to propositions that underly #arithmetic. If this is an example of DJUNO, what are the x2 and x4? "I know fe [that 2 + 1 =3D3] because it is entailed by fo [my experience that one doll plus two dolls makes three dolls, plus general principles about the validity of generalizing from particulars]"? That seems okay to me, but I'm not sure if this is the sort of thing you had in mind. --And. Of course, in many circumstances, you leave out a good deal of information, and in other circumstances, you don't recognize what experience led to `knowledge'. (The gismu that depends on people making an unexamined study of their world is {fatci}: x1 (du'u) is a fact/reality/truth/actuality, in the absolute=20 /:/ /=3D/ fatci (fac) This gismu is for people who elide; it is both dangerous and useful.) --=20 Robert J. Chassell bob@rattlesnake.com=20 Rattlesnake Enterprises http://www.rattlesnake.com