From graywyvern@hotmail.com Fri Mar 30 09:26:00 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: graywyvern@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 30 Mar 2001 17:26:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 19111 invoked from network); 30 Mar 2001 17:25:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 30 Mar 2001 17:25:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO fh.egroups.com) (10.1.2.135) by mta1 with SMTP; 30 Mar 2001 17:25:59 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: graywyvern@hotmail.com Received: from [10.1.4.68] by fh.egroups.com with NNFMP; 30 Mar 2001 17:25:58 -0000 Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 17:25:53 -0000 To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: the reason for x4 of {djuno}? Message-ID: <9a2fj1+hcqp@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1192 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 65.67.96.113 From: graywyvern@hotmail.com --- In lojban@y..., "Jorge Llambias" wrote: > most Lojban predicates don't > have an epistemology place. One can always be added, e.g. LE MLATO PEVEDU'O LE SMACU is more like Beowulf's monster or the creatures in "Alien" than a lovable pussycat... And FATCI FI'O DJUNO LE MLATU may include the perception that one fur person in particular is the geometric center of the universe. I think the vexing question of what the default x4 of DJUNO means can be solved thusly: Since there are basically three kinds of circumstance that arise, one in which both the speaker & the listener have the same position on the meaning of default- x4; one in which they know they differ; & one in which they don't know whether they differ or not: the first case is trivial, & for the second it should be considered obligatory to state which x4 (VO'A or LE MIBYPRE) is intended, to prevent the listener from assuming it is the one in accordance with their own opinion. Then, that only leaves the third case. I think that assuming the majority view is the default would be reasonable, but this is for each speaker to figure for themselves what the risk of being misunder- stood would be...