From xod@sixgirls.org Fri Mar 30 12:38:43 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: xod@shiva.sixgirls.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 30 Mar 2001 20:38:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 96721 invoked from network); 30 Mar 2001 20:38:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 30 Mar 2001 20:38:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO shiva.sixgirls.org) (206.252.141.232) by mta2 with SMTP; 30 Mar 2001 20:38:41 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by shiva.sixgirls.org (8.11.3+3.4W/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f2UKd5D10828 for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2001 15:39:05 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 15:39:05 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [lojban] the reason for x4 of {djuno}? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-eGroups-From: Value Yourself From: Value Yourself On Fri, 30 Mar 2001, And Rosta wrote: > Xod to Jorge: > > > Most assertions don't have an epistemology x4 place. > > > > Nearly all assertions have really have tacit x4. > > quite so: what seems to be happening with DJUNO is that the x4 > of djuno is sumti-raised out of the tacit epistemology place > in the bridi expressed by x2. > > It follows from this that if every bridi has a tacit epistemology > place then the fact that DJUNO has its x4 does not contribute to > the definition of DJUNO, because even if, like KRICI, DJUNO had > no x4, the epistemology place would still remain, tacit and > unraised, within the x2. This is a very elegant solution! Unfortunately, while the x2 of a jei abstraction is an epistemology, the x2 of a du'u is only a sentence text that expresses it. One can add a vedu'o place to anything, I suppose, which converts the discussion to the ancient one of modal vs. sumti. > Hence the x4 of DJUNO turns out to be a red herring, and the > old question remains, about whether for "djuno ko'a" to be > true (with due account taken of the -- tacit or otherwise -- > epistemology of ko'a), ko'a must be true. ko'a must be true according to the x4, right? ----- "The trees are green, since green is good for the eyes". I agreed with him, and added, that God had created cattle, since beef soups strengthen man; that he created the donkey, so that it might give man something with which to compare himself; and he had created man, to eat beef soup and not be a donkey.