Subject: Re: [lojban] Beginner phrases

From: [email-masked]
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 16:32:38 EDT

In a message dated 4/13/2001 2:05:18 PM Central Daylight Time, 
[email-masked] writes:

> > ko gasnu vorme ganlo
> > shut the door
> ko te ganlo le vorme
The list is ambiguous, but I am pretty sure that in
x1 (portal/passage/entrance-way) is closed/shut/not open, preventing 
passage/access to x2 by x3
x3 is prevented passage or access, not the agent of the closed/shut/not 
open-ness.

In a message dated 4/13/2001 1:20:52 PM Central Daylight Time, 
[email-masked] writes:

The big problem is the distinction between sumti and selbri (nouns and verbs, 
as we would say in English): you don't make it, so you get long complex 
selbri (verb phrases) with no objects

> pe’u ko klama vi

OK, maybe {ko vi klama}  is more lojbanic, but saying that can start arow.

> pe’u ko dunda cukta mi

This says "Please be a giving book about me"  You want {pe'u ko dunda le 
cukta mi}, if you have a patiuclar book in mind or {pe'u ko dunda lo cukta 
mi} for a book, whatever comes to hand.

> ko jinru

OK (we will not at this point get fussy about what the child is to immerse 
himself in and what he is to do in it, though given a six-year-old's 
jesuitical strain, {ko lumci vo'a} might be safer)

> pe’u ko jgari mi

On the same ground, watch out for clutching and choking.

> ko gasnu vorme ganlo 

This gets complex. {gasnu} object is an event description , {lenu...}, in 
this case that the door (a specific one, I assume) is closed: le vorme cu 
ganlo ({cu} to mark the beginning of the selbri -- or the end of the sumti). 
 So the whole comes to 
{ko gasnu lenu le vorme cu ganlo}  (The original said --whatever it may mean 
-- "Be agent doorly shut")

> xu skule pluka

xu le ckule cu pluka (do) (We skip over the fact that {pluka} expects an 
event description in the first place, so the question is "really" about some 
event involving the school and so should have teh subject-rasing {tu'a} in 
front of it.  don't worry about that yet)  The original is "Is ita scholarly 
pleasure?"  

> lumci ledo fe xance

ko lumci ledo xance (the {fe} would go before {ledo} but is unneeded since 
the sumti is in the right place)

> ko cliva klaji
> get out of the street

ko cliva le klaji (seems more of an abandonment, but I can't think of a 
better word)

> pe’u ko zutse ledo stizu
> sit in your chair

Yup.

> ko smaji
> be quiet

And yup again.

A really nice start!