Subject: Re: [lojban] Three more issues

From: John Cowan <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 12:37:43 -0400

[email-masked] wrote:

> Issue A: (This is mainly for la xorxes.)
> Without using sets, how can "There are many rats" be said? (The book 
> says it as <le'i ratcu cu barda>

That *translates* as "The set of rats is large", which *entails* that
there are many rats. A proper *translation* of "There are many rats"
would be something like "loi ratcu cu so'imei".

> Issue B:
> As I understand lujvo, any lujvo may be defined *W/O* tanru, using be 
> and poi/voi (or je) [assuming that <lo broda je brode> is the same as 
> <lo broda poi brode>, and <le broda je brode> is the same as <le broda 
> voi brode>.
> 
> Examples: 
> brabloti = bloti poi barda = bloti je barda
> bifmlo = molki be lo nu brife

Those are *believed* to be *the most common* lujvo-making patterns.
No such claim of exclusivity is possible, as the chapter on lujvo-making
is at pains to point out. There are exceptional patterns.
(If you want -gua!spi, you know where to find it.)

> Issue B.1:
> <cakcinki>, therefore is *not* a beetle, but any shelled insect.

But that isn't a useful concept: the adult forms of all insects
whatsoever have chitin shells.

> If this is not true, then there is no true way to understand 
> lujvo from there definition, only get a clue.

Just so. Lujvo-making is a creative process!

> Issue C:
> Since tanru are (very) semantically ambiguous, how can we allow 
> ourselves to define language concepts using tanru (e.g. <sumti tcita>, 
> <se steci srana>, etc? Those would mean extremely 'wide' concepts!

No, they mean (Humpty Dumpty style) what we intend them to mean.
We do not define concepts using tanru; rather, we refer to concepts
using tanru.

> Issue D:
> Why the hell does <brivla> mean what it means? How do the two terms 
> connect, and why would it mean only one word?

Usage. "Valsi" means "word".

> What's the real 
> difference between a brivla and a selbri, then?

A selbri need not be a valsi.

> I mean, <nu prenu kei> is lo valsi, isn't it?

No.

-- 
There is / one art || John Cowan <[email-masked]>
no more / no less || http://www.reutershealth.com
to do / all things || http://www.ccil.org/~cowan
with art- / lessness \\ -- Piet Hein