From biomass@hobbiton.org Mon Apr 16 15:22:17 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: biomass@hobbiton.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_2); 16 Apr 2001 22:22:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 89183 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2001 22:22:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 16 Apr 2001 22:22:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO elrond.hobbiton.org) (216.161.236.97) by mta3 with SMTP; 16 Apr 2001 22:22:11 -0000 Received: from hobbiton.org (biomass@thorin.hobbiton.org [216.161.236.98]) by elrond.hobbiton.org (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id f3GMOtw04591 for ; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 17:24:55 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (biomass@localhost) by hobbiton.org (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id f3GMJhq06330 for ; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 17:19:43 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 17:19:43 -0500 (CDT) X-Sender: biomass@thorin To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Subject: Message #1 (aka then what ARE tanru?!) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII From: Avital Oliver I suggest for anyone interested to real the entire message, even though it's build as a lame RPG book. Let me start by asking, how one would translate "blue house" into english. Would it be "blanu zdani"? But that could mean a house for blue inhabitants. Tehn I assume "blanu je zdani" would be the correct way. Which brings me to Question A: Would "blue house" be equivelant in meaning to "blanu je zdani"? If your answer is Yes, continue to Question E. If not, continue to Question B. Question B: How would you translate "blue house" into Lojban, pertainig the gfact that it is the house that is blue? Continue to Question E. Question E: Is "blanu je zdani" the same as "zdani je blanu"? Yes -> F No -> J Question F: But wouldn't "blanu je zdani" mean that the blueness and the house-ness of thesumti are independant, whereas "blue house" says that the house is blue relative to other houses? Yes -> G No -> H Question G: How would I say \, something that is a house, and is blue relative to other houses, without using a plain tanru like "blanu zdani"? End. Question H: CORRECT. zo'o This is how I see it, after Adam gave me the insight that actually any word in context with the tanru helps you to understand its meaning/connection/context. So why not have blanu je zdani have the context of blanu derived from zdani? End. Question J: Then what is the difference, and then what would mean? It's blue in a big way? End.