From lojbab@lojban.org Wed Apr 18 10:33:45 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojbab@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_2); 18 Apr 2001 17:33:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 36157 invoked from network); 18 Apr 2001 17:33:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 18 Apr 2001 17:33:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO stmpy-1.cais.net) (205.252.14.71) by mta3 with SMTP; 18 Apr 2001 17:33:44 -0000 Received: from bob.lojban.org (dynamic116.cl7.cais.net [205.177.20.116]) by stmpy-1.cais.net (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f3IHXg598945 for ; Wed, 18 Apr 2001 13:33:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010418132300.00be5410@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: vir1036/pop.cais.com@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 13:37:17 -0400 To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] Dictionary format In-Reply-To: <01041719525609.29765@neofelis> References: <20010417163914.C26996@digitalkingdom.org> <01041501150602.16694@neofelis> <01041719201508.29765@neofelis> <20010417163914.C26996@digitalkingdom.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed From: "Bob LeChevalier (lojbab)" At 07:47 PM 04/17/2001 -0400, Pierre Abbat wrote: > >> And how would you format the English-Lojban side? > > > >Dunno. Probably: > > > >animal danlu [dal, da'u] > > x1 is an animal/creature of species x2; x1 is > > biologically animate > > > > (cf. banfi, cinki, cipni, finpe, jukni, respa, since, > > mabru, bakni) I will note that, when we finally produce a printed dictionary, economics will demand that we use space efficiently (or the book will be priced out of reach of most Lojbanists). That will mean small print, very little white space, and the use of typography to set off parts of the definition. Even with this, it would be difficult to keep the printed dictionary down to the length of the reference grammar, which means that the price will likely be higher. >If you're going to provide a long explanation on the English-Lojban side, it >should be in Lojban, No one has the time to write Lojban explanations for a few thousand words. I will be happy to get place structures for more lujvo on the Lojban side, and use keyword text processing tools to produce the English to Lojban entries. This is what has been done with the longer gismu entries in the official dictionary file. www.lojban.org/draft-dictionary/ENGDICT.GIS Ideally the lujvo entries will eventually approximate that form. >the rafsi should be English rafsi (such as tri- for >three), and the cross-references should be to English words. The cross-references speak to the fact that the Lojban word given is not an exact translation of the English word, and that the cross-referenced entries might also be valid translations, given suitable context. English cross-references would not convey this information. No doubt, each cross-reference entry could be expanded by a word or two as you did with your "picture:" example to make it more useful, but that would take a lot of manual work. The best we could do automatically (and it would cost valuable space) would be to use the English keyword in the manner you suggested e.g. cf. amphibian: banfi, insect: cinki, bird: cipni, etc.) lojbab -- lojbab lojbab@lojban.org Bob LeChevalier, President, The Logical Language Group, Inc. 2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA 703-385-0273 Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: http://www.lojban.org