From cowan@xxxxx.xxxx.xxxx Wed Apr 21 09:59:10 1999 X-Digest-Num: 120 Message-ID: <44114.120.674.959273824@eGroups.com> Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 12:59:10 -0400 From: John Cowan > That's what history looks like from the rear. It didn't happen that way. > > That's a newbie's impression gained by reading most of the web pages, > which is all I have available. I assume from your words that you know how > it actually happened; I'm all ears. > > Such documentation would, I suspect, be a good thing to post on both web > pages. I suspect that if done right it would help to heal some parts of > the rift (although as I said before, I don't think the two languages will > ever merge). Or make it worse. The history of a dispute is difficult to write until all the participants have died off. 1/2 :-) This can be said, however: that a dispute about legalities and about organizational rules caused an organizational fission: an attempt, on the part of the offshoot, to avoid further disputes about legalities caused a fission of the languages: positions then hardened on both sides. Loglan remains mutable and proprietary: Lojban is public domain, but is no longer changing by the conscious choice of its creators. (Natural language drift is expected to occur, as in all languages.) > > Its definition may be frozen, but do you suppose that stops people > > tinkering with it? The point is that we know that any suggestions we > > make (that touch the matter which has been baselined) cannot become part > > of the language, at least until the next baseline. That doesn't stop us > > 'exploring' as you put it. > > Nothing stops anyone -- we're all free agents. We still generally start > out wanting to do something, and choosing the best tool for that job. If > you want to modify a language, you'll prefer a language which is open for > modification. The view of LLG (the Lojban organization) is that many people will not learn a language that they perceive as showing a substantial risk of change, for they are not willing to have to unlearn what they have learned. At the present time both Lojban (de jure) and Loglan (de facto) have stabilized, as far as I can tell. > That's the hope. Well, good luck to us all. Indeed. -- John Cowan http://www.ccil.org/~cowan cowan@ccil.org You tollerday donsk? N. You tolkatiff scowegian? Nn. You spigotty anglease? Nnn. You phonio saxo? Nnnn. Clear all so! 'Tis a Jute.... (Finnegans Wake 16.5)