From lojbab@lojban.org Fri Apr 20 20:40:57 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojbab@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_2); 21 Apr 2001 03:40:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 3561 invoked from network); 21 Apr 2001 03:40:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 21 Apr 2001 03:40:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO stmpy-4.cais.net) (205.252.14.74) by mta3 with SMTP; 21 Apr 2001 03:40:55 -0000 Received: from bob.lojban.org (dynamic72.cl7.cais.net [205.177.20.72]) by stmpy-4.cais.net (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f3L3es633127 for ; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 23:40:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010420233721.00c10c60@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: vir1036/pop.cais.com@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 23:44:44 -0400 To: Subject: RE: [lojban] Three more issues In-Reply-To: References: <4.3.2.7.2.20010418171442.00be4b60@127.0.0.1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed From: "Bob LeChevalier (lojbab)" At 02:52 AM 04/21/2001 +0100, And Rosta wrote: >Lojbab: > > At 10:00 PM 04/18/2001 +0100, And Rosta wrote: > > >John to Avital: > > > > > I mean, is lo valsi, isn't it? > > > > > > > > No. > > > > > >I think this is an unresolved issue, whether or > > >not we simplify the claim to " cu valsi" > > >(or, equivalently, "The Beatles cu prenu"). The > > >unresolved issue is whether pa valsi is a single > > >word (in which case the claim is false) or a single > > >amount of wordage (in which case the claim is true). > > >I guess usage favours the former. > > > > A single word is the smallest unit of valsi (valsi selci). In general, > > count nouns are counts of selci, though we have examples of mass nouns > that > > are counted otherwise (ci birje - don't ask me what a birje selci would > be). > >So are you saying that there's a rule of lojban lexical semantics >that says that when counting broda you could the smallest units of >broda, except in the case of certain specified lexical exceptions? I would not say it is a "rule". Rather, I haven't ever contemplated any alternative. I also don't think that there are lexical exceptions, but rather that there are situations where we don't know what the smallest unit of broda is. In the case of words, we generally do know. I think that there is a difference between "nu prenu kei" cu valsi", and "la bitlz cu prenu". The latter would expand to 4 names linked by some form of connective "and" (.e or joi or ce probably). The 3 quoted words are a unit which one cannot assume can be broken down, since order is significant. lojbab -- lojbab lojbab@lojban.org Bob LeChevalier, President, The Logical Language Group, Inc. 2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA 703-385-0273 Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: http://www.lojban.org