From jjllambias@hotmail.com Sat Apr 21 13:58:08 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: jjllambias@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@onelist.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_2); 21 Apr 2001 20:58:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 31022 invoked from network); 21 Apr 2001 20:58:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 21 Apr 2001 20:58:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (216.33.240.156) by mta2 with SMTP; 21 Apr 2001 20:58:07 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 21 Apr 2001 13:58:07 -0700 Received: from 200.41.247.53 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 21 Apr 2001 20:58:07 GMT X-Originating-IP: [200.41.247.53] To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Three more issues Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 20:58:07 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 Apr 2001 20:58:07.0388 (UTC) FILETIME=[C40B8DC0:01C0CAA5] From: "Jorge Llambias" la adam cusku di'e >Isn't it it an elementary point about lojbanic masses that since a >portion of the mass of "lei so'o valsi" is a valsi, the whole mass is >a valsi. It is one of the usual myths about Lojban masses, yes, but it is false. Consider: le mu cukta cu ki'ogra li pimu Each of the five books weighs 0.5 kg. lei mu cukta cu ki'ogra li repimu The five books (as a whole) weigh 2.5 kg. That a portion of the mass weighs 0.5 kg does not entail, imply or in any way implicate that the mass as a whole weighs 0.5 kg. Similarly, that a portion is a word does not mean that the whole is a word. >The question is about "(sel)brivla". I don't see why "lei >so'o valsi cu selbrivla" isn't correct (parellel to "lei prenu cu >bevri le pipno", chapter 6, example 3.2), but "le so'o valsi cu >selbrivla" is false because neither "nu" nor "kei" is a "valsi lo >selbri" (though it is a "valsi da"). That depends on the meaning of {brivla}, not on the meaning of {valsi}. You might define the lujvo {brivla} in such a way as to correspond with what the grammar calls a "tanru unit", but that is not how "brivla" is used in English, brivla is just one type of tanru unit. Not even GOhAs are called brivla, even though they are valsi. Only gismu, lujvo and fu'ivla are brivla. Oh, and gismu, lujvo and fu'ivla are brivla :) co'o mi'e xorxes _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.